[lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything

["Jorge Llambías" <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On 3/27/06, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> --- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/27/06, John E Clifford:
> > >
> > > I have always thought the "opinion" part of
> > > {jinvi} was peripheral in a sense;
> >
> > Given the x4 of {jinvi} (the "grounds") it is
> > hard to see how it could be peripheral.
>
> Well, since opinions don't require evidence, I
> never could get those two together.

Perhaps opinions don't require evidence, but it is at least
not unusual, when someone offers an opinion, to ask for the
grounds on which it is based. OTOH, asking what grounds
one has for thinking about someone, for example, sounds
just bizarre.

Also "opine" is given as the gloss for {jinvi} and "opinion"
for the x2, so opinion does seem to be the intended central
meaning of {jinvi}.

> >   mi pensi lo nu lo xarju cu vofli
> >   I think of an event of pigs flying.
>
> But what do you think of it?  This always seems
> elliptical to me.

I can think of flying pigs without thinking anything of it,
and I don't think this is a special ability of mine. More
commonly, I can think of a person for example without
thinking anything in particular about them.

> > > Or
> > > do you want that {pensi2} is for
> > propositional
> > > content (which would eliminate a raft of
> > > problems)?
> >
> > No, I think pensi is fine as it is, but that it
> > is not for opinions.
>
> I didn't say anything about opinions: I can think
> content without necessarily affirming it (indeed,
> the need for that other pattern is why I have
> trouble with {jinvi} as opinion).

I don't see a problem with using {pensi} for thinking
of any kind of content, propositional or not. Even things
like:

   mi pensi lo nu mi te vecnu lo karce
   I am thinking of (I am considering) buying a car.

Sometimes the NSM prime THINK is used that way, but
sometimes it is also used for opinions. So THINK is a blend
of {pensi} and {jinvi}.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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