[lojban] Re: ZOI and culture neutrality

[Hugh O'Byrne <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

.ue.ua.auro'e

Nora LeChevalier wrote:
> I agree with .epkat.
>
> In addition (in particular), I believe that the use of ZOI in speech is 
> different from it's use in writing.

See the beginning of the first post of this thread.  I didn't have such
examples as you describe below in mind when I wrote that, but of course 
in principle I agree.

>  In speech, it can be used to quote 
> non-speech sounds that do not have any representation in speech (play a 
> tape of thunder, pages rustling, etc).

You take the idea even further than foreign languages.  I have thought 
along such lines, but thought it would be *too* far to push the point 
(at least initially).  I thought I would be even more dismissed if I 
were making points on a level *so* far removed from everyday Lojban.

But you've brought it up, which is good.  Keep in mind that I admit the 
usefulness of my approach is restricted: specifically, to those who 
write Lojban that they want another to be able to read aloud, and those 
who speak Lojban that want transcribers to be able to write precisely. 
But, as just a recommendation, it does not impose or restrict anything.

If the speaker chooses the direct ZOI approach as you describe, that 
speaker is making a choice to make his speech impossible to transcribe 
precisely.  I do not wish to take this freedom away from him.  If 
transcription *is* a concern of the speaker, he can always choose 
another way to represent the sound (in words, "the sound of thunder", 
"the sound of paper rustling", etc.).  So the point is moot, this person 
neither gains nor loses by my suggestion.

>  In writing, it can be used to 
> quote non-lerfu-based visual things (such as pictures ); in fact, I came 
> across (long ago) a short story whose "name" was a blot - very difficult 
> to add to the short story index I was keeping at the time.

Indeed.

The writer of this short story obviously did not intend for it to be
read out loud.  So this type of writer is also outside of the scope of 
my proposal.  The recommendation would neither help nor harm him.  As 
has been said before, Lojban has freedoms for ridiculousness; this is 
not in contradiction to its freedoms for precision.

--
Good night, and have a rational tomorrow!

mi'e .xius.



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