Re: [lojban] the set of answers

["Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>]

la adam cusku di'e

> > {lo'i du'u makau klama le zarci} is the set {tu'o du'u la djan klama
> > le zarci; tu'o du'u la meris klama le zarci; tu'o du'u la djan e
> > la meris klama le zarci; tu'o du'u la djan enai la meris klama le
> > zarci; noda klama le zarci; ... }
>
> First, would you consider "tu'o du'u la .djan. fa'u la .meris. klama
> le zarci" to be a member of that set?

Yes, but notice that the referent(s) of {le zarci} get established
once for all the set. If it refers to only one store, the fa'u answer
won't make much sense.

> I don't think that you can evaluate 'makau' like that. I think that
> the makau gets evaluated within the abstraction whenever the
> abstraction is applied according to the meaning of the selbri. You
> seem to be evaluating it within the context of the main bridi. IMO,
> lo'i du'u makau klama le zarci has a single member, with the 'makau'
> staying as it is.

You may be right, and that solves the {frica} issue, but then it
sets us back in trying to explain {makau}...

> I don't see the problem. If indeed x3 of frica is supposed to be a
> property of both x1 and x2, then the makau is evaluated once for each
> ckaji. "la .dabias. dunli la .tcelsis. le ka [da zo'u] da mamta ce'u"
> doesn't imply that they have the same mother.

Certainly. {le ka da mamta ce'u} is one property in which they are
equal. Both share that property.

> Likewise with "la
> .dabias. frica la .tcelsis. le ka makau mamta ce'u", where the makau
> is evaluated only when it is applied to each ckaji, and not once for
> the main bridi.

Ok, I guess that's possible. I'm not yet totally clear on what
the scope of makau is.

> Even with your set interpretation, couldn't you say that the member of
> the set is "tu'o ka la .barbras. fa'u la .xi,l,ris. mamta ce'u"?

That's nice! I think I'll go with this for now.

> Or, we could reinterpret what the x3 of frica should be and make it
> into a relationship: "la .dabias. frica la .tcelsis. le ka ce'u se
> mamta lo na du be le mamta be ce'u".

I don't like that, it makes it much more complicated to use.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



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