Re: rights

["Jorge J. Llambías" <jorge@intermedia.com.ar>]

>> Yes, pe'i seems to make it too subjective. The function of the word
>> is just as an itemizer of preliminary considerations. How about {zu'u}?
>>
>Or maybe {ju'a} or even {ju'o}?  We could do with an agreed attitudinal for
>premises, which is what the opening of the UNDHR is all about.

I agree. I thought of those too, and also considered {ka'u}. I think
{ju'a} doesn't work because the main assertion, the declaration itself,
is what comes after the preliminary considerations, thus using {ju'a}
gives them the wrong weight. {ju'o} might work, in some way we'd
be saying these things are already certain, and based on that we now
declare what follows. I liked {zu'u} because I think it is the closest
in meaning, i.e. on the one hand, we have all these facts, and therefore
we declare ... In this case there happen to be no facts mentioned
on the other hand, but I don't see that as a problem, {zu'u} is after
all for stating premises.

>> Also, you had the rights and dignity of the human family, whereas
>> the original talks of the rights and dignity of each member
>> of the family. The difference is subtle, but I think important, since we
>> are talking of the rights of the individuals, not the rights of the race.
>>
>I thought "lepiro" covered that. Perhaps {ro le} might be better.

No, {ro le lanzu} means "each of the families". If you want to refer
to the members you do need {ro cmima}, or perhaps {ro se lanzu},
or {ro lu'a le lanzu} if you prefer.

{le piro remna lanzu} is "the whole human family". The whole family,
not each of the members.

>I think the
>rights of the race would be simply {le}.

{le lanzu} and {ro le lanzu} mean exactly the same thing: each
of the families.

>The problem is that we're trying to
>translate a metaphor which means, in effect, "members of the set of humans,
a
>set which can be likened to a family".  My initial attempts to tanru-ise
"member
>of the human family" got hopelessly muddled, and I nearly ended up
according
>rights only to those humans who were members of families!

I think {ro cmima be le remna lanzu} is a perfect translation for "all
members
of the human family". Where is the problem?

co'o mi'e xorxes