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Re: [lojban] More Alice
At 2:24 AM +0000 6/4/01, Jorge Llambias wrote:
la pycyn cusku di'e
Well, it was a play with words, but hardly a play ON words and pretty
surely
not a pun (maybe 2/3, as the saying goes -- but I doubt that).
I probably don't understand the meaning of "pun" then. In fact
there is no common word like it in Spanish, we just say "juego
de palabras" (wordplay).
A pun requires the substitution of similar-sounding words in a
well-known phrase, or the use of two separate meanings of a word or
phrase. It is widely held that the outcome of a successful pun is
groans rather than laughter.
"A pun is the lowest form of wit," says the critic.
"A bun is the lowest form of wheat," says the punster.
Punster: "I can make a pun on any subject."
Challenger: "Make a pun on the King, then."
Punster: "The king is not a subject."
Some of the more notable practitioners have been
Steve "The Leaning Pizza of Towser" Allen
Piers Anthony, whose Xanth tales run on magic fueled by low-grade
puns such as exploding pineapples.
Terry Pratchett, who can pun on ideas, not just words. His character
Rincewind, given the magical power "to find food in the desert",
picks up a rock and discovers a ham sandwich underneath.
Reginald Bretnor, who originated "Through Time and Space with
Ferdinand Feghoot", writing under the anagrammatical pseudonym of
Grendel Briarton. "One man's meat is another man's poi, son."
Isaac Asimov, who also wrote Feghoots.
Spider Robinson, who claims that the ultimate accolade for a pun is
for the listeners to run screaming into the night while holding their
noses. In Callahan's Crosstime Saloon and its sequels, regular weekly
Punday contests are held. On one occasion, Jake tells the story of
his great-grandfather Stonebender building the pyramids and curing
yaws. "What's yaws?" asks Callahan suspiciously. "Why, thanks, Mike,
I'll have a beer."
Dennis Muir and Frank Norden of the BBC radio program My Word. "G.
Stopes took oinker." "Peeper porter prigged a perk of pickled pauper."
Vladimir Nabokov, who translated "Alice" into Russian.
Anyway, I thought you made a very good pun.
[snip]
>The Lobster Quadrille looks passable in that (no surprise here -- like
Chinese, it is hard not to rhyme in Lojban) it rhymes fairly closely, but
it
is not a quadrille or any other regular dance step, though the chorus comes
close.
Could you be more specific? I thought I had matched the English rhythm
pretty well. Where did I miss? It is certainly modifyable where needed.
The Lobster Quadrille is based on The Laughter Quadrille, a popular
dance of the period which I have in an arrangement for recorders. It
is in a very assertive 2/4 time, requiring strict alternation of
stressed and unstressed beats.
>Is it time for another round on what Lojban poetry will be like, given that
neither rhyme nor rhythm are likely to play major roles? In any case, a
dance would be a bad candidate for an early contribution.
Why? I don't understand the defeatism.
There are all sorts of rhymes, and a variety of non-rhyming forms as
well. How about a sestina?
Consider these, from http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~ian/glossary.html.
Rhyme:
normally end-rhyme, that is, lines of verse characterized by the
consonance of terminal words or syllables. Rhymed words
conventionally share all sounds following the word's last stressed
syllable. Thus "tenacity" and "mendacity" rhyme, but not "jaundice"
and "John does," or "tomboy" and "calm bay." The rhyme scheme is the
pattern of end-rhymes in a stanza.
* Amphisbaenic rhyme: a reversed rhyme, such as "trot" and "tort."
* Broken rhyme: rhyming with an initial or medial syllable of a
word that is split between two lines with a hyphen.
* Eye rhyme: words rhyming only as spelled, not as pronounced,
and hence not a perfect or true rhyme. An example is "through" and
"slough."
* Feminine rhyme: gendered expression for rhymes ending in one
or more unstressed syllables, such as "fruity" and "booty." The
expressions light, weak or multi-syllable rhyme avoid the sexist bias.
* Half-rhyme: rhyming only with the consonants in the terminal
syllable(s). Examples would include "tell"/"toll" and
"concrete"/"litcrit". Also termed `off-rhyme' and `slant rhyme.' See
consonance.
* Initial rhyme: see alliteration.
* Internal rhyme: rhymes found inside the lines, as well as
(usually) at the end of the lines.
* Masculine rhyme: gendered expression for rhymes ending in a
stressed syllable, such as "hells" and "bells." The expressions
strong or one-syllable rhyme avoid the sexist bias.
* Monorhyme: the use of only one rhyme in a stanza. An example
is Dante Gabriel Rossetti's "The Woodspurge."
* Pararhyme: Edmund Blunden's term for double consonance, where
different vowels appear within identical consonant pairs (a feature
of Wilfrid Owens' verse).
* Tail rhyme: a stanza with a tail, tag, or extra short line
that may rhyme with another such line later on. Chaucer's tale of Sir
Thopas is one example.
* Rich rhyme: rhymes identical in sound (or spelling) but
semantically different, e.g., "Felicity was present | To pick up her
present."
* Synthetic rhyme: a forced rhyme in which the spelling and
sound of a word are distorted.
* Vowell rhyme: see assonance.
See also alliteration, assonance, consonance, onomatopoeia, and rime couée.
--
Edward Cherlin
Generalist
"A knot!" exclaimed Alice. "Oh, do let me help to undo it."
Alice in Wonderland