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RE: [lojban] questions about DOI & cmene
At 12:35 AM 07/17/2001 +0100, And Rosta wrote:
> >What I mean is that someone called Sally gets called "la salis." rather
> >than "la sali.". Why? Why not "la sali."?
>
> Because "sali" is neither a cmene ending in a consonant nor a brivla, and
> therefore it is ungrammatical.
I'll take your word for it.
> Indeed sali breaks into two words, so the listener might take that string
> as "la sa li".
This seems a bogus argument, since it applies also to licit cmene, such
as "la salis."
No because a bare name is permitted as a vocative standing alone. In that
situation, salis. does not break up (because sa lis. would not be a name,
with lis being preceded by other than a pause, la/lai/la'i, or doi.)
> If you are suggesting that we could have permitted anything to be a name,
> so long as it ended in a pause, so that "la" opens it and the pause closes
> it, then you eliminate the possibility of a bare (unmarked) vocative like
> "djan.".
I didn't know that unmarked vocatives were allowed,
Only at the start of text, a concession to natural language.
but at any rate, they
would be excluded by a rule that says names introduced by la (etc.)
terminate at the first /./.
But they don't. You can be la .and. rostas. for example.
> "mi klama le zarci" would have to be interpreted as a vocative
> call to someone named "miklamalezarci".
I think you are getting confused between cmene and cmevla.
I am confused as to the referent of those terms as you are using them, yes.
I suggest that
we could have permitted anything to occur as a LA cmene, not that
everything ending in a pause would be a cmevla.
It isn't entirely clear what we COULD have done, but at the time we made
the decision, we could have *considered* only that which mimicked JCB's design.
> Now my daughter's middle name is Katrina, and it was offered to her (she
> chose it from a list not knowing its Lojban sense) deliberately in
> recognition of the ability to then call her "la ka trina" which teenage
> boys certainly seem to feel is an apt name.
What do you call her? La katrina ku? La angela.?
The latter is invalid Lojban because of the "la" in the name, so she is
either la katrina [ku] or la anDJElys. (which is actually the Russian
pronunciation she originally used). But she as a teenager is embarrassed
by the former; what teen wants their parents calling them "Attractiveness"
even in another language %^)
lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org