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RE: lo'e (was: Re: [lojban] ce'u



At 08:58 PM 8/27/01 +0100, And Rosta wrote:
Adam:
> la and. cusku di'e
>
> > What I like about this is firstly that it would settle what lo'e and
> > le'e mean:
> >
> >    lo'e gerku (be zo'e)
> >  = lo(i) ka ce'u gerku zo'e
> >  = lo(i) ka gerku  [under most-favoured proposals]
> >
> >    le'e gerku (be zo'e)
> >  = le(i) ka ce'u gerku zo'e
> >  = le(i) ka gerku  [under most-favoured proposals]
>
> What is the difference between "le ka gerku" and "lo ka gerku"? Is
> there more than one "ka gerku", given a certain value for all those
> "zo'e"s?

To take the second question first, this is an important one. Given a
certain value for the zo'es, the answer is a straightforward No, but
it is not established that the sentence meaning guarantees that there
is a certain value for all those zo'es. When you quantify over
abstractions, do zo'e have scope inside or outside the abstraction
(that is, is there reference/binding fixed inside or outside the
abstraction)? My own preferred but totally unofficial rule for zo'e
is that it is a variable bound by an existential quantifier with
maximally narrow scope, so zo'e are bound within the abstraction,
and hence {ro ka broda cu pa mei}. However, if there is no specific
rule for the binding/reference-fixing of zo'e (and if its reference
can be fixed arbitrarily within the abstraction, i.e so that it can't
be exported to prenex of main bridi), then {na ku ro ka broda cu pa
mei}, because there'd be as many {ka broda} as there are construals of
the zo'e within it. IMO that would be a Bad Thing, because all
abstractions would become intolerably vague, except to glorkjunkies.

Nora opines that apparently then you may be stuck with the glorkjunkie version, because when we use ka anaphorically, we appear to get the result you dislike

Thus if we are discussing
lo ka ce'u lebna loi titla loi cifnu
we might later anaphorically refer to
le ka lebna
where we clearly may want the zo'es to be carried over indefinitely.

on the other hand it isn't always the case that we want the zo'es to carry over.
--
lojbab                                             lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                    703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org