[lojban] Re: x2 of klani

["Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Arnt Richard Johansen <arj@nvg.org> wrote:
>
> klani2 is a stumbling block to me, as it is not obvious what the x2 in the gismu definitions refers to:
> x1 is a quantity quantified/measured/enumerated by x2 (quantifier) on scale x3 (si'o)
>
> WordNet lists two senses of "quantifier":
> 1.      (logic) a word (such as 'some' or 'all' or 'no') that binds the variables in a logical proposition
> 2.      (grammar) a word that expresses a quantity (as 'fifteen' or 'many')
>
> Neither of these seem appropriate.

But both correspond to the cmavo of PA, and that's how "quantifier" is
always used in Lojban.

As I understand it, {klani} is the general case of
mitre/litce/grake/cacra/etc. all of which use a number (or other
quantifier) in x2.

> So in general, it seems that users of Lojban believe that what goes into one of the places is the description of some substance, and another of the places is some indication of how much there is of that substance.

Like all measure words.

> But they don't seem to agree on which is which -- in the first example, it seems that the quantity goes into the x1 and the mass of stuff goes into x2, while in the other examples, the situation is reversed.

I think the first was just an oversight. The general rule for measure
words is to have the stuff in x1 and the number in x2.

> Furthermore, what type of sumti can go into the x2? Is it a number? (Jorge's example is the only one that fills in the x2 explicitly.) But if it is a number, how can it also be a spoon, as the place structure of {muclai} seems to imply?

It can't. The spoon should define the scale somehow.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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