[lojban] Re: xorlo

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Squark Rabinovich <top.squark@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No. "Tables fall from the sky" also has no meaning outside context since
> it's unclear whether that's a general property of tables or a statement
> about certain tables in a specific situation.

I think we are simply disagreeing on what "means" means. In some
absolute sense, no sentence has any meaning outside context.

>> I prefer (2) because it's the one that makes outer quantifiers
>> systematic: an outer quantifier always tells you how many out of all
>> the referents of the sumti satisfy the predicate. For any sumti
>> whatsoever. That breaks down for masses if you use view (1).
>
> I don't get it. I thought the outer quantifier of loi is the number of
> masses. How can this break down?

View (1) was:
(1) ["loi"] merely indicates that the predicate for which the sumti
is an argument applies collectively to the referents of the sumti,

If the referents of "loi jubme" are tables rather than a mass, then to
follow the normal rule the outer quantifier on that sumti should
quantify over tables, not over masses. If the referents of "loi jubme"
are masses, an outer quantifier that quantifies over masses does
follow the normal pattern.


> Suppose I say loi nanmu cu bevri le pipno .i gi'e dasni lo xunre creka Does
> it mean the division into groups is the same regarding carrying pianos and
> regarding wearing red shirts?

(There's no ".i" there. "gi'e" connects bridi tails.)

I would answer yes. It's the same as "ko'a goi loi nanmu zo'u ge ko'a
bevri le pipno gi ko'a dasni lo xunre creka".

> But since we don't know anything about the size of the groups, there is no
> difference between lo nanmu cu bevri le pipno and loi nanmu cu bevri le
> pipno !

My personal recommendation is to never use "lo'e", "le'e", "lo'i",
"le'i", and "la'i", and to avoid using "loi", "lei" and "lai", so if
you see no use for "loi" you are in agreement with me.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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