Re: [lojban] Re: camxes's reaction to some fu'ivla

[Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>]

On Thursday 28 January 2010 14:15:25 Jorge Llambías wrote:
> Some examples from jbovlaste:
>
> ab,nie,na
> sar,gue,ia
> per,vu,'ui
> krio,fla

Also "niengatu", which is related to abniena ("nien" means "language" in both 
languages; I've thought of calling the language family "bangrniena").

Is there any indication in the Book that the initial "i" or "u" in a diphthong 
is considered part of the onset.

> I don't find any example with CCCi/CCCu but I only made a superficial
> check. camxes should accept the first two, but not the last two.

How about "skriabino"? Or "striato"? Not that they've actually been defined, 
but they're plausible. Another example of Ci onset is "spatrxapio". Valfendi 
considers all of those valid.

> That's odd indeed. It should disallow all of them. It appears as if it
> was allowing tar,km,a,ko and bon,gn,an,ba but I don't see why. A
> consonantal syllable should not be able to be followed by a syllable
> without an onset.
>
> Maybe the implementation of camxes you are using is not based on the
> current morphology as it appears in
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+PEG+Morphology+Algorithm
> (or maybe I'm missing something there.)

I downloaded it from a link someone gave me on IRC. How do I find out what 
version it is?

Here's another question to consider: Should a coda be allowed after a 
consonantal nucleus? My example is "bangrgbe" (some African languages, named 
for their word for "language"). Both vlatai and valfendi accept it; camxes 
doesn't. Valfendi, when asked to syllabify it, says "BA,ngrgbe", but I'd 
say "BAN,grg,be". (In Gbe, the "gb" is one sound.)

> If weird codas are allowed for the last syllable, shouldn't they be
> allowed for any syllable, rather than just the last one?

Chapter 4 contains the name "tcarlz", which ends in three consonants, 
and "ralj" as an example of a cmevla formed from the long rafsi of a gismu. 
If any long or CVC rafsi is allowed to be used as a cmevla (except ones that 
begin with "la" - so how do we name lakes?), then "rafs" and "datk" should be 
valid cmene. Some real-world names that end in clusters that can occur 
medially are "Minsk" and "Yakutsk".

What about cmevla beginning with clusters that aren't allowed initially in a 
brivla, such as "mkyveix"?

> camxes does not allow the combination of ts/tc/dz/dj with other
> consonants in an onset. The only consonant-cluster onsets that it
> accepts (besides those four) must fall within the pattern:
>
>    (s,c,z,j) (p,t,k,f,x,b,d,g,v,m,n) (r,l)
>
> so the maximum length for an onset is three consonants.

Where did you get this set of clusters from?

Pierre
-- 
Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.