Re: [lojban] Careful with noi!

[pycyn@aol.com]

In a message dated 00-08-17 15:00:40 EDT, maikl writes:

<< perhaps my lojbanic point would be clearer if e.g. a gismu for "cherry" 
had 
 (say) an x3 place for its "stone" & in the song they used ZI'O there, or 
 else
 
 "I gave my love a ribbon/ That had no threads" as
 
 MI DUNDA FI LEMI DIRBA FELE DASRI BEZI'O >>

Well, that would get rid of the {noi}-{poi} problem, but it doesn't catch the 
English at all, saying at best "I gave my darlin' something just like a 
ribbon except that it might or might not be made of any material."  The 
original seems to require that it definitely NOT be made of material (not 
just threads -- we can do that by using plastic) and the baseline of {zi'o} 
won't reach to that.  That baseline drops the {zi'o}d position from the 
definition of the term but does not guarantee that it is empty ({botpi zio} 
means "bottle" but without reference to its content, not "bottle without any 
content").  The interesting question is whether something can be a botpi zi'o 
even if it noworld has a content -- the description seems to say not but the 
examples contain one that says yes.