RE: [lojban] lu'e (was: Re: ka + makau (was: ce'u (was: vliju'a

[Invent Yourself <xod@sixgirls.org>]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, And Rosta wrote:

> Xod:
> > Page 134, ex. 10.4
> >
> >    mi pu cusku lu'e le vi cukta
> >    I said the title of this book
>
> = I said "The complete Lojban language"
>
> > If John is the goer, then surely
> >
> >    mi djuno lu'e le klama
> >    I know the title of the goer
>
> = mi djuno zo djan
>
> -- which is nonsense, because one can't djuno a
> word; one can djuno only a du'u
>
> >    I know who goes
>
> Certainly not.
>
> Perhaps part of the problem is the ambiguity of
> English, because "I know the title of the book"
> can mean "I know what the title of the book is",
> i.e. "mi djuno tu'a lu'e le vi cukta".


What you call ambiguity is actually a the conflation between facts
and their logical conclusion. The meaning is identical.



> So you could elliptically render "I know who goes"
> as "mi djuno tu'a le klama", the vague meaning of
> which has to be Glorked From Context.



If I know the title of the goer, I know THAT the title of the goer is X.
(The fact that {the title of the goer is X} is a du'u!)

If I say I know the title of the goer, that inexorably implies that I
know the fact that {the goer has the title X}. It's a trick that
allows me to get away with djunoing this particular sumti without needing
tu'a!





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