Re: [lojban] Re: Request For Help; non-urgent research request to help Lojban.

[Oren <get.oren@gmail.com>]

I like the idea of categories (or... tags!), I think the wiki is the
place for it to happen, and I also think we shouldn't start from
scratch. The thesaurus on the wiki page already segregates all gismu
into hierarchical categories. We can make a page template that allows
people to add "lujvo requests" to a category. A sister project to
consider would be fleshing out that same ontology with the existing
specialized lujvo lists and the lujvo flat file.

I would also think that English/natlang glosses for the categories
should be optional while lojban section titles be mandatory and
default, for clarity.

Back to the original topic of finding a minimal wordlist for a
dictionary, I think the real forward-thinking approach would be to
find some sufficiently open project similar to EuroWordNet [a
multilingual WordNet], and then extracting a set number of unique
*syslinks* (word senses), so that when we sit down to define 'spring'
we don't have to remember jumping, metal coils and le printemps all by
our erring-human selves.

We could either use an arbitrary limit and go by frequency, and/or go
for all syslinks that contain an arbitrary number of constituent
languages. For example, only bother with 50% of all word senses that
appear in three or more languages.

co'o mi'e korbi

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 15:13, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My absolutely fantastic idea that donri/kribacr started and never
> finished (or never even started, but definitely came up before I
> thought of it [but it's still my idea]) is/was/will be to have groups
> of people select topics, and then go through and come up with as many
> words related to that topic as possible. I got this idea one day as I
> was sticking masking tape to pretty much everything around my
> apartment and writing the Lojban word for it in sharpie. I came across
> the simple fact that jvs didn't have words for "pot", "kitchen",
> "frying pan", etc., so I came up with words for them, and I think at
> least "kitchen" (jupku'a) is up there. I tried this again with
> computer terminology and it completely failed as nobody could agree
> properly on things (like "window", on which I still harshly/
> obnoxiously/rudely/insultingly disagree with xorxes).
>
> Rather than having one person sit through some big gehorsenshitfesten
> (parden my German) trying to pick out the most common concepts in the
> universe, why don't we use the wiki idea and create "conversational
> categories" under which we can place words (probably a lot of fu'ivla
> and lujvo) relevant to the topic. This will generate a much larger and
> relevant body of information, and it's a -much- less daunting task.
> For example, I am a recording engineer, so I would be likely to start
> a "recording technology" topic, and possibly contribute to the "music"
> topic as I would be more likely than anybody else to need/use words
> like "Hertz"/"kHz", "microphone", "nearfield monitors", "synthesizer",
> "MIDI", "mixing console", "bass", "treble", and I would probably be
> more qualified to determine what kind of terminology in Lojban is the
> most suitable. I'd also be fairly interested in the "kitchen and
> cooking" topic, and I think a great many a newbie would be very
> interested in the "household objects" topic, which would probably
> include a pointer to the "kitchen and cooking" topic and maybe even a
> "bathroom and hygiene" topic. This way people find what interests them
> and contribute to topics that they enjoy, which doesn't necessarily
> give an accurate picture of common usage based on an average through
> world cultures, but definitely gives a good sampling of words to use
> in conversation for the types of conversation that people learning
> Lojban would have. It works as a double edged sword (of handiness) in
> that we have people that are going to enjoy working because they're
> learning how to talk about things that interest them by contributing
> (which means things are more likely to get added, being that it's fun
> and not a chore) -AND- that we have quick 'topic reference'
> dictionaries so you can just leave the list open and peak through to
> make it easier to carry on conversations about what an arse your
> government leader is without having to poke through a list for ten
> minutes while the conversation has already passed because you wanted a
> word for "idiot" and jvs only had "stupid" as a gloss word for
> tolmencre. (Bad example, you get the picture.)
>
> Perhaps we can quickly brainstorm a few major topics just to have
> something up on a wiki?
>
> household items
> kitchen and cooking
> bathroom and hygiene
> sports and spectating
> automotive and driving
> computer ((hot topic, prone to arguments))
> music
> politics and law
> school and education
> work and the workplace
> friends and family
>
> The idea would be to have a big list of topics (and possibly
> subtopics), and on the pages of each we have brief glosses with Lojban
> words, with links to a page detailing the place structure, examples of
> usage, actual usage example if available, and potentially a relevant
> image (for those that learn by seeing and not reading).
>
> Perhaps under "household items" is "garage", and on the page for that
> it includes a little link for "see section: automotive and driving",
> and perhaps even "garage" is also located under "automotive and
> driving" or somesuch.
>
> Neatonifty idea, right?
>
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