Re: [lojban] Re: {le} in xorlo

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 2. zo'e != lo. I have no idea where you folks got the idea,

Nobody says zo'e=lo.

We can say, roughly, "lo ..." = "zo'e noi ke'a ..." (that won't work
as a general substitution in more complex syntactic environments, so
if you quote me on that please do emphasize the "roughly"). In other
words, "lo" converts a selbri into a sumti. "zo'e" provides the sumti
skeleton, and "noi ke'a" provides the hook where the content given by
"broda" can be hung. "lo" does all that in compact form, it has a
built-in hook that must be used, you can't just use "lo" without
hanging a "broda" on it. "zo'e" has no built-in hook, but you can add
one to it with "noi ke'a".

> but AFAIK
> "zo'e" is not "lo broda" or anything like that, it is simply an
> unspecified sumti,

Of course. "lo broda" contains the semantic content of "broda", and
"zo'e" by itself does not. Who ever said that "zo'e" is "lo broda"?

> and therefore we don't need a new sumti "zo'e'e" or
> any such thing.  It's not a particular unspecified thing, it isn't a
> specific unspecified thing, and it's not a thing which really is or
> isn't or is called an unspecified thing, it's just an unspecified
> sumti.

"lo" is "zo'e" with a hook.

"le", like "zo'e", has a hook, but it is not just "zo'e" with a hook,
it adds something else. The idea of "zo'e'e" is that "le" is "zo'e'e"
with a hook. But that doesn't really tell us much if we can't say what
the additional content that "le" adds to "lo" is. (Or, equivalently,
that "zo'e'e" adds to "zo'e".)

You don't need to worry about any of this in order to use the
language, but surely there is no harm in people discussing these
things?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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