[lojban] Re: Questions about jorne

[Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>]

NOTE: Skip to the bottom for the short version.

> [1] From the specifications: “Concepts included in any natural
> language can be the vocaburary of CWL.“

Oh, so you're suggesting we use this to create some kind of...
documentation? Translator? I still don't get what you mean...

> [1] From the EmotionML specifications, "users can create their custom
> vocabularies."

Nifty.

> [2] Note the graph structure  of CWL:
[Bunch of BS cut out.]

Yeah, I have no idea what that means, and consequently is of no use to
me.
Looks random BS somebody wrote down to stick on a screen to look like
they're programming something when they don't have any idea how to
actually programme, rather than anything actually intelligible.

> ...Can lojban allow that?

What? All that emotion schtuphs? Yeah, it can, newbies pretty much use
nothing but that. Every single little thing you described on that
emoticrap list is feasible in Lojban, AFAIK.

> A brief embedded triple structure for a
> forty-one-type-of-relation directed graph markup? Sure, but but it
> wont be intelligible lojban.

Yeah, that sounds like a bunch of crap made up for a Star Trek script.
Simple English, please. =D

> A limitless vocabulary? The discussion began because we're trying to
> work up to a 6000 word dictionary... endless additions don't seem
> feasible.

You seem to be missing some big key here. We are, right now,
documenting vocabulary to be used in common conversation, which we
will begin to translate into Lojban and develop any missing words or
terminology. Just because we don't have them doesn't mean we aren't
going to have them at all ever. There are probably some 2 to 6 million
intelligible lujvo that can be created (just taking a guess at
1600x1600x1600 and assuming that a lot of them are going to be
useless), plus fu'ivla borrowed from native languages of origin (most
commonly Greek or Latin I would assume due to scientific standards).
4700-some words aren't really a big deal in the scope of things.
Maybe, instead of being pessimistic, you could help the BPFK
translation project or Conversation Guide project so we can actually
have a finished product to use as source-material for a dictionary? =D

> An expansion of emotional ontology, and allowing of custom vocabulary?
> Doesn't seem that Lojban is designed to be that flexible.

...uh...yeah, actually, it is. lujvo and fu'ivla are designed for
exactly that, unless I'm missing your meaning.
As for the "emotional ontology"... uhh... go play around with selma'o
UI or something... I'm not sure really what you're trying to get at
with this part.

> My above questions are probably due to my misunderstanding of the
> specifications of Jorne; it makes much more sense to try and describe
> [finite] lojban in terms of these frameworks, and not try and, like
> these frameworks, attempt to describe [infinite] natural language text
> and emotion.

This looks like bad Am-Eng. Did you mean "It makes much more sense to
try to describe finite lojban in terms of these frameworks rather than
to try to describe infinite natural language text and emotion." ? Cos
if not, I have no clue what you're trying to say. If that is what you
meant, then I agree in the context of choosing one option or the
other, but I fail to see what any of this has to do with anything (and
if it isn't, could you please rewrite it in Lojban?). Why did you
bring it up? What is it meant to accomplish? It seems that you're
suggesting an attempt to try to document Lojban with this, which has
absolutely nothing to do with the dictionary effort then, and why did
you bring up the dictionary in the first place? We don't need a method
of defining Lojban using some kind of programming language that uses
single English gloss words as that's pretty much what we've got now,
and that's why we're having the problems we're having right now.

We need formal, human readable, plain-text, simple English
translations for stupid people, and we need formal definitions for
pretty much every cmavo in the ma'oste. I think whatever this is that
you're proposing is completely unrelated to the dictionary effort, so
let's drop that idea entirely from the conversation.

What, EXACTLY, are you suggesting we do with 'jorne', and what is it
meant to accomplish?

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