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Re: [lojban]



Hoo boy!  Why don't you start with a hard one?  le/lo in Lojban (we won't even get into what has happened in Loglan) has been a source of endless toing and froing.  The short answer is that 'le broda' is an _expression_ that refers to a thing (or group of things) the speaker has in mind to refer to.  It does that successfully if the hearer takes it to refer to that thing (or things),  The 'broda' part is technically just there to hold up the 'le', although practically it should help the hearer in identifying the intended object.  "The whatsit" would be as good if it got the right thing (even if that thing actually were a broda). 'lo' is the opposite.  Its job is to turn a predication into a noun, a noun that somehow (sometimes mysteriously how) is related to things that satisfy that predicate.  Skipping over a number of peripheral cases, which may never come up in your experience -- as long as you stay out of philosophical discussions,  'lo broda' refers to some brodas, which ones being contextually determined (eventually, one hopes -- but, if not, it probably doesn't matter).  So, for talking about brodas, 'lo broda' is usually the way to go, unless there is a special reason for narrowing focus (although even this can often be done by context).  For sorting out different critters with the same decription, Lojban has an array of of "here/there/ yonder" and "the just mentioned /the new guy/the even new guy" short words that hook on to the gadri rather easily.



From: jamie bechtel <jamie6297@yahoo.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 2:09:04 PM
Subject: [lojban]

Hello all.  I've begun looking into Lojban (and Loglan), and if this is the appropriate place to do so, I'll be asking questions here...

If I say "le bajra" several times in an utterance, I assume that each instance is normally interpreted as having the same reference (i.e. I'm probably talking about only one runner).  Is there a curt/simple way to indicate that I'm talking about a new/different runner (eg. "the runner spoke to the runner about the runner")?

Loglan "le", and in some places Lojban "le" is described as analogous to the English definite article (i.e. "le bajra" means the particular runner that I have in mind).  Elsewhere, "le/lo" are distinguished by whether or not "the runner" really is a runner, or merely something that I casually choose to call a runner (correct?).  Are both of these interpretations of "le" correct?  And if "lo" can only mean "that which is most definitely a...", under what circumstances would I use it?  All that I can think of is "a man walks into a bar...", and other such jokes.  It looks to me like there's no real indefinite article, and that "le" is going to be used much more than "lo".  Not that that looks like a problem to me.  I just want to be sure that I have a clear understanding of gadri.

I believe that "le mi cutci", and "le cutci pe le bajra" are legitimate, correct?  Can one also say "le cutci pe mi"?  Can one say "le mi pe bajra"??

Attitude indicators seem to follow rather than precede the words that they modify.  Why do they differ in this way from other Lojban words?

Thanks for your time and attention.

-jamie

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