Re: [lojban] .i ki'u lo cribe mi na sipna

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> On Sunday 05 September 2010 00:02:10 Jorge Llambías wrote:
>> So you can't ask for one motive for both? Normally the terms before
>> the conjunction have scope over the conjunction.
>
> "ma" refers to the same thing in both bridi because it was only a single "ma"
> before expanding. If they were originally two sentences, they would ask for
> two answers.

That doesn't really solve the problem. Let's leave the matter of
questions aside for the moment. Consider:

    term ge bridi-tail_1 gi bridi-tail_2

I contend that this always expands to:

    term zo'u ge bridi_1 gi bridi_2

where bridi_1 and bridi_2 are just bridi-tail_1 and bridi-tail_2 with
possibly a variable added to represent "term" in the right slot if
necessary.

"term" could be any term: "su'o da", "na ku", "mu'i ma", whatever.

Examples:

   su'o prenu ge lojbo gi gleki
= su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da lojbo gi da gleki
= "Some people are both lojbanists and happy."
NOT= "Some people are lojbanists and some people are happy."

   no prenu ge lojbo gi bebna
= no da poi prenu zo'u ge da lojbo gi da bebna
= "No person is both lojbanist and silly."
NOT= "No person is lojbanist and no person is silly."

So far so good. If we add na to the bridi-tail, we have:

   su'o prenu ge na lojbo gi na gleki
= su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da na lojbo gi da na gleki
= "Some people are neither lojbanists nor happy."
NOT= "Some people are not lojbanists and some people are not happy."
NOR= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists and it is not
the case that some people are happy."

But:

   su'o prenu ge na lojbo gi na gleki
= su'o prenu na lojbo gi'e na gleki

and for some weird unfathomable reason, CLL wants:

   su'o prenu na lojbo
= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists."

instead of the expected:

   su'o prenu na lojbo
= "Some people are not lojbanists."

But how do you reconcile these two:

   su'o prenu na lojbo
= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists."

   su'o prenu na lojbo gi'e na gleki
= "Some people are neither lojbanists nor happy."

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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