Re: [lojban] .i ki'u lo cribe mi na sipna

[Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>]

2010/9/5 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
> On Sunday 05 September 2010 00:02:10 Jorge Llambías wrote:
>> So you can't ask for one motive for both? Normally the terms before
>> the conjunction have scope over the conjunction.
>
> "ma" refers to the same thing in both bridi because it was only a single "ma"
> before expanding. If they were originally two sentences, they would ask for
> two answers.

That doesn't really solve the problem. Let's leave the matter of
questions aside for the moment. Consider:

   term ge bridi-tail_1 gi bridi-tail_2

I contend that this always expands to:

   term zo'u ge bridi_1 gi bridi_2

where bridi_1 and bridi_2 are just bridi-tail_1 and bridi-tail_2 with
possibly a variable added to represent "term" in the right slot if
necessary.

"term" could be any term: "su'o da", "na ku", "mu'i ma", whatever.

Examples:

  su'o prenu ge lojbo gi gleki
= su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da lojbo gi da gleki
= "Some people are both lojbanists and happy."
NOT= "Some people are lojbanists and some people are happy."

  no prenu ge lojbo gi bebna
= no da poi prenu zo'u ge da lojbo gi da bebna
= "No person is both lojbanist and silly."
NOT= "No person is lojbanist and no person is silly."

So far so good. If we add na to the bridi-tail, we have:

  su'o prenu ge na lojbo gi na gleki
= su'o da poi prenu zo'u ge da na lojbo gi da na gleki
= "Some people are neither lojbanists nor happy."
NOT= "Some people are not lojbanists and some people are not happy."
NOR= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists and it is not
the case that some people are happy."

But:

  su'o prenu ge na lojbo gi na gleki
= su'o prenu na lojbo gi'e na gleki

and for some weird unfathomable reason, CLL wants:

  su'o prenu na lojbo
= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists."

instead of the expected:

  su'o prenu na lojbo
= "Some people are not lojbanists."

But how do you reconcile these two:

  su'o prenu na lojbo
= "It is not the case that some people are lojbanists."

  su'o prenu na lojbo gi'e na gleki
= "Some people are neither lojbanists nor happy."

mu'o mi'e xorxes

mi jdice lodu'u lo danfu pe la.xorxes. cu xauzma lo danfu pe la.cylyl. .ije mi ba pilno zo na lo ta tadji

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

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