[lojban] Re: Dialects

[Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>]

> I wouldn't go so far as to call the variations in the way we speak
> Lojban "dialects", I would just call them "styles".  There aren't
> really any separate speaking communities that have been diverging.

1. Linguistics . a variety of a language that is distinguished from
other varieties of the same language by features of phonology,
grammar, and vocabulary, and by its use by a group of speakers who are
set off from others geographically or socially.

So by its base definition, it's almost impossible for Lojban to have a
dialect because it is so different. It's not spoken by any one region,
and people across regions speak it the same way. It's a new kind of
language in a new kind of environment, so we have to change the
definition. There is a very clear difference, to me, between old
speakers ({le broda cu brode}) and new speakers ({.i lo broda ku
brode}) in the way they think and express things. There's a variety of
the language that seems to come mostly from Sweden wherein the selbri
is almost always placed first (I see this a lot from donri, and a bit
from snan IIRC). The only way we could have dialects according to the
standard definition at this point would be phonology (there's a clear
difference between German, American, Scandanavian, and the-rest-of-
Europe Lojban) and its use by a group of speakers who are set off from
others 'geographically' (mriste vs. irc) or socially (non-sampla/non-
linguists vs. linguists vs. sampla). I really think that this requires
a lot more research and documentation. Perhaps we should start
recording particular features common in the expressions of others?
We'll see if we can find a common link.

2. a provincial, rural, or socially distinct variety of a language
that differs from the standard language, esp. when considered as
substandard.

It's a bit of a stretch, but the ancient CLLbau that we run into every
so often really sounds like this to me. =D

3. a special variety of a language: The literary dialect is usually
taken as the standard language.

This seems like a close emerging description. I've been reading (the
plural of anecdote is not data!!) during various discussions of
terminators vs. not terminators (noodles... don't noodles...) that
using more/full terminators seems more literary/scholarly/royal.
Perhaps my variety of language to yours is like Oxford English to
standard American? Sounds obnoxious, but very proper?

4. a language considered as one of a group that have a common
ancestor: Persian, Latin, and English are Indo-European dialects.

Ahhhh... by this definition Lojban is a dialect of Loglan, is it not?
=D

5. jargon or cant.

Hmmm....

> There's slightly different Lojban spoken on the mailing list vs IRC,
> but on the whole it's spoken two different ways by the exact same
> people, so I'm inclined to think of it as stylistic differences in a

Okay, look at England. Drastically small! There are three different
dialects just in London.

> single dialect.  When we get a localized speaking community having
> regular RL meetings (looks like the Bay Area might be first?) it'll be
> interesting to see if any local distinctions emerge.

I think that's a bit anti-internet biased. I personally consider
various areas of the internet to be different geographic regions.

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