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Re: [lojban] Jbofi'e working

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl> wrote:
Dnia piątek, 24 września 2010 o 18:13:27 Jonathan Jones napisał(a):

> lu ma lojbo valsi zoi py.rodak.py li'u drani

ki'anai ki'e

> .i.ua mi facki
>
> Polish
> (culture) po'olska

From the very beginning I was looking for Polish stuff among lojban words and now I'm sad to find that there's not even a gismu for it! What's more, "polska" is a lujvo that means "colors of Polynesia" ;)

> Polish
> (language) bangrpolska

Yeah, but Polish is an inflected language and spelling it as "bangrpolski" (note the ending, from "język polski") was a kind of a political statement zo'osai On the other hand gugdrpolska is about right in that regard, unless you think of "państwo polskie" (and if I was really, really mean, I would say gugdrjetcpospolita)

> (Above from jbovlaste)
> Polish
> (Polish language) banpu'olu
>
>  (I believe this one is based on the ISO code.)

Well, ISO code for Poland is pl or pol. The latter is a rafsi for polno, as I demonstrated above...
--
Ecce Jezuch
"10 Com&ments": "God: Im #1. No pix, plz. Uz my name nicely. Day7holy.
Take care of mum&dad. Dont kill, scrU round, steal | lie. Keep yr hands
(&eyz) off wot isnt yrs!'" - Dziesięć przykazań w SMS-lang

Well, I have to say I am in agreement with your frustrations. Not long ago, someone brought up the fact that Lojban has cultural gismu, but not all cultures are represented, and that Lojban's cultural neutrality is endangered by this fact, and that the solution was all or nothing - either all cultures have a cultural gismu, or none.

There was also a side point that the cultural gismu that /do/ exist are too generic, such as glico "x1 is English/pertains to English-speaking culture in aspect x2", which refers to Brits, U.S.Americans, Canadians, South Africans, Australians, and possibly more, or to go the other way 'round, ropno "x1 reflects European culture/nationality/geography/Indo-European languages in aspect x2", which refers to the culture and nationality and geography and language of a region. In response to this second point, and the fact that I felt "nothing" was both easier than "all" and actually possible (due to the fact that cultures by their very nature are constantly forming, changing, and dissolving), I created culturally neutral lujvo for the individual concepts of nationality, culture, etc.:

Language : banra'a
Culture : klura'a
Community : cemra'a
Religion : jdara'a
Nationality : selgu'era'a
Territory : tutra'a

Someone else decided to go with "all" and made fu'ivla using ISO codes for all the countries, languages, etc., which is how banpu'olu came about, and considering the immense effort, time, and discussion spent in the ISO code-based fu'ivla making, I'm not surprised my words got lost in the shuffle.

(By the way, I would appreciate jbopre following the links and approving the words, and I would even more appreciate them being used.)

There's even a tiki-page about this whole fiasco: which actually pre-dates the group thread: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Boo+to+cultural+gismu

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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