Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Well, I'm not sure who this remark is addressed to, but, since it perpetuates an 
error that both xorxes and I agree is wrong-headed, I will answer.  It is not 
that 'nitci' changes its meaning, it is that the objects of 'nitci' are of 
different types and this difference has consequences.  When the object is a 
reference to an ordinary thing, this means that a raising has taken place 
legitimately.  If the object is an abstraction, then the raising is not (treated 
as) legitmate.  Of course, either of these moves may be wrong -- the raising, 
though carried out, was illegitimate or the raising could have been carried out 
but wasn't (a much less awful move). 'nitci' always means something like "x1 has 
a felt lack such that both if (certain conditions specified in x2) were then the 
lack would be filled and if the lack were filled, the the conditions would 
obtain."  The strange case of 'mi nictci lo plise' arises when we know (contrary 
to the contrary-to-fact conditionals) that a particular apple in this world that 
does the trick.


----- Original Message ----
From: Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 7:47:43 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

You're just being arbitrary at this point. I've explained quite
thoroughly my side of the argument, and you seem to be ignoring my
statements instead of addressing them. For the record, I have
explained that the reason it's wrong is because the meaning cannot
change based on context. When {djica} means "wants" in some contexts
and "wants to have" in others, that is bad. This is why pilno/dunda is
okay and djica/nitcu is not. We're not discussing universes of
discourse, epistemology, unicorns, magical crabs, and whether we give
an apple or give ownership of an apple. It comes down to the simple
fact that a gismu cannot change meanings based on context, and you're
implying that it can. Consistency is important. If {djica lo plise}
means "Want to have an apple." then what does {djica lo nu bajra}
mean? "Want to have a running."? You're bringing up a lot of pointless
bullshit that really doesn't have anything to do with the actual
problem here. You're constantly making comparisons to English and then
justifying your malgli because it's valid in English.

You are not listening, you are not following logic or standard
practice, and I am getting extremely frustrated.

So, I am going to, as politely as possible, bow out of this
conversation.

I'm done.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.


      

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.