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Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
That's roughly what I had in mind for it.
Note that even though there are a few gismu and that universe is
closed, lujvo will need some way to be marked with these classes
as well.
-Alan
On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 02:14:06PM -0400, Oren wrote:
> Re: "Again, the important thing is which individual places accept what
> sorts of arguments. The gismu itself just relates those places."
>
> So then, the concept of my spreadsheet *DOES* contain useful and valid
> information, but would only be complete if it were expanded to include all
> the 'oblique' sumti places as well?
>
> Re:"Does it bother you that *{mi pinxe lo jubme} would also be considered
> semantic nonsense, because tables aren't the sort of thing that one can
> drink?"
>
> If things like "agent/object" are specified in these definitions, why
> shouldn't all 'sensical' general classes like material states
> ("liquid/solid") be included as well? This is in part why I was referring
> to these 'classifiers' as 'tags' originally. As long as people can easily
> point to a construction and say "according to this sumti's implied class
> and that selbri's meaning, this makes no sense," I think that type of
> judgement should have a clear litmus test. And there's nothing stopping
> us. With a vocabulary of less than 1500 words, many of which fall into
> regular sub-classes in the thesaurus, I see no reason why we shouldn't
> have this resource.
>
> So, to expand the scope here, I'm proposing that each and every sumti
> position in gismu definitions list explicit tags for baseline sensicality.
> That is, for bajra:
>
> bajra: x1 runs on surface x2 using limbs x3 with gait x4
>
> Now account for baseline sensicality:
>
> x1 must-be agent...
> x2 must-be material...
> x3 must-be material, must-be movable-part...
> x4 must-be manner...
>
> Now let's envision that these clearly specified 'baseline sensicality
> tags' for sumti positions are like 'keyhole definitions' that only these
> explicit classes can fit. Now, each sumti position also gets any number of
> 'key definitions' for what it can fit into, or what sumti places it can
> sensically 'fill.'
>
> x1 can-act-as agent, can-act-as moving-thing, can-act-as athlete...
> x2 can-act-as general-place, can-act-as surface...
> x3 can-act-as body-part...
> x4 can-act-as idea...
>
> Now, if we do this for every gismu, I imagine we'd end up with many
> high-frequency tags like "agent" and "material," and several hundred less
> frequent tags like "liquid" "body-part." Each of these tags would have a
> list of sumti positions it requires, and a (probably much larger) list of
> sumti positions that can "sensically" fit that semantic role.
> This data/document would not only provide a richer (many-to-many) series
> of 'categories' for vocabulary study lists, there are a series of new
> applications this would allow. You could automatically gauge the degree of
> 'figurative language' used in a text. You could automatically generate
> sensical example sentences for given vocabulary (or even generate a
> [1]minimal spanning sensible sentence for a set of words). You could even
> develop a kind of auto-complete function for a lojban-specific
> text-editor: as you begin to type a sumti in, a list of 'sensical'
> suggestions could come up in a tooltip window. If we get this data, I'd
> totally code that!
>
> But I want to make sure I'm understanding the nature of this data set.
> Please let me know if I'm still making sense, and if I do, I'll come up
> with technical specs for a web interface to make this data easy to gather
> and manage. Maybe I'll use this as a way to learn to use github.
>
> co'o mi'e korbi
>
> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:14, John E Clifford <[2]kali9putra@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, xorxes has ideas about how Lojban *does* work, and, with minor
> exceptions,
> > he has got it right. So Lojban is his "other" language. Sorry you think
> this
> > discussion is bull-crap; it is trying to work out the ramifications of
> Lojvan
> > being a logical language, dealing with both the logical part and the
> language
> > part, and shooting for reasonable resolution where they appear to
> conflict.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Lindar <[3]lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
> > To: lojban <[4]lojban@googlegroups.com>
> > Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 9:55:04 AM
> > Subject: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
> >
> > Oren, I answered your question some two or three times.
> >
> >
> > Where x2 of broda asks for {nu} and x1 of brode asks for {nu}, {.i
> > broda lo brode} is kosher, because lo brode already -is- an event. For
> > all other cases, an abstractor is necessary.
> >
> > (barring all the other bullcrap/arguments going on right now)
> >
> > xorxes, since you have all these ideas about how Lojban should work,
> > why don't you just make your -own- language and let it stand up to
> > Lojban?
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> Oren Robinson
> (315) 569-2888
> 102 Morrison Ave
> Somerville, MA 02144
>
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>
> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_spanning_tree
> 2. mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com
> 3. mailto:lindarthebard@yahoo.com
> 4. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 5. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 6. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 7. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 8. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 9. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 10. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
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