Re: [lojban] Re: I wanted to share this with you (writing thingy!).

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/11/12 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  (Plus,
>>> pronouncing somebody's name with the stress they like on it is
>>> friendly.)
>>
>> Yes, that's similar to pronouncing a Chinese name with the tone they
>> like, even though tone is irrelevant in Lojban. For personal names, it
>> is polite to at least try to use whatever the name bearer likes, when
>> you are aware of it and you are able to manage it.
>>
>> But for names of places, products, and so on, insisting that everyone
>> should use one or another of the permissible forms is not really
>> practical.
>>
>>> But yeah, there's no doubt about the fact that, from a morphological
>>> and syntactical standpoint, .martin. and .marTIN. are the same name.
>>> Ditto .ai,on,ys., .a,iO,nys., and any other variation in placement of
>>> the commas and the stress. As far as the grammar is concerned, it is
>>> as irrelevant as the fact that I say the name with a rounded .y. This
>>> isn't a matter for disagreement; it's a feature of the official
>>> parser.
>>
>> At least a feature of the official-to-be parser. I don't know what the
>> currently official parser does, since it doesn't really have a fully
>> functional morphology.
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>  I know we can either a) go around with the same conversation again
> or b) say "look it up the last time we did" but I'm forced once again
> to point out that unlike tone or allophones, stress is recognized by
> lojban as a language feature that makes a meaningful difference in
> utterances, so to say that it doesn't make a difference in cmevla in
> particular, is an arbitrary ruling (made by xorxes?) that I see no
> support for.   And to refer to your friend martin (=MARtin) as
> "marTIN" is just plain wrong. la'e zo marTIN na du la'e zo MARtin .i
> seni'ibo zo marTIN na du zo MARtin  (I think I'll start referring to
> xorxes as "djordj" and see how that goes over).
>
>                --gejyspa
>

  Oh, and to amplify the "... I see no support for"  see CLL, chapter
4, section 8.10, point 4):
"4)
They may be stressed on any syllable; if this syllable is not the
penultimate one, it must be capitalized when writing. Neither names
nor words that begin sentences are capitalized in Lojban, so this is
the only use of capital letters."
  Which means that stress MUST be a differntiating feature.

      --gy

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