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Re: [lojban] proposed grammar definition for ZOhOI
xorxes pointed out earlier today in a different thread that
zoi's delimiters must be valid lojban words. This excludes
" from being used. Nevertheless, I give you points for
cleverness there. :-D
-Alan
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:40:59PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> I agree that zo'oi "Where are your keys?" should not be valid, although I
> could see an argument for zoi " Where are your keys? " being made, or at
> least for a zoi-like word which accepts non-word, non-letter delimiters.
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:30 PM, .alyn.post.
> <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> Good catch, thank you. The definition of spaces in the (my) grammar
> is:
>
> spaces <- ( comma* space-char )+ EOF?
> / EOF
>
> Which includes what I understand to be a pause. (comma and space,
> which includes punctuation like ? and !.)
>
> I've been experimenting with this part of the morphology, I believe
> camxes includes Y (hesitation) here, which is an interesting
> question:
>
> For ZOhOI, LAhOI, &c, anything that quotes a single word, is
> hesitation allowed between zo'oi and the quoted word? zo permits
> hesitation between between zo and the quoted word, but the quoted
> word is Loban. If we permit hesitation between ZOhOI and the
> quoting word, we don't allow ourselves to quote a foreign word that
> coincidentally is .y.
>
> In theory, we could use ZOI and delimit the word in this case, so it
> isn't a show-stopper. camxes actually doesn't permit this usage
> either (though it is grammatical, you wind up with a parse tree that
> is quoting nothing rather than quoting .y.), which is why I've been
> experimenting with Y handling.
>
> Interesting question, nevertheless. Accuracy versus consistency?
> What do you think?
>
> I also asked xalbo whether this this was valid usage:
>
> zo'oi "Where are your Keys?"
>
> And he opined no.
>
> -Alan
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 01:19:59PM +1100, Ross Ogilvie wrote:
> > From jbovlaste, zo'oi acts to "quote next non-Lojban word only; quotes
> a
> > single non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace
> (in
> > writing)".
> >
> > It seems to say that the pauses are required. ie
> > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI spaces non-lojban-word spaces
> >
> > I don't know enough about the parsing of non-lojban-word to know if it
> > will make a difference
> >
> > mu'o mi'e ros
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:48 AM, .alyn.post.
> > <[1][2]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> >
> > In discussion with xalbo on #lojban, This is the proposed definition
> > for ZOhOI as expressed in PEG. The '...' productions are existing
> > rules in the grammar that surround the new definitions, which are
> > shown here.
> >
> > ZOhOI <- &cmavo ( z o h o i ) &post-word -> ZOhOI
> >
> > ZOhOI-clause <- ZOhOI-pre ZOhOI-post
> > -> ZOhOI-clause
> > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI `spaces? non-lojban-word `spaces?
> > ZOhOI-post <- post-clause
> >
> > CMAVO <- ...
> > / ZOhOI
> > / ...
> >
> > sumti-6 <- ...
> > / ZOhOI-clause free*
> > / ...
> >
> > known-cmavo-sa <- ...
> > / ZOhOI-pre
> > / ...
> >
> > ;; I'm not certain of the postfix to use here, this needs testing.
> > ;; It may be just 'ZOhOI'
> > ;;
> > known-cmavo-pre <- ...
> > / ZOhOI-pre
> > / ...
> >
> > There are a small number of issues surrounding the ZOhOI-pre clause,
> > and what exactly consitutes a non-lojban-word. All of this is
> > untested, I wrote this up as a proof of concept. I'm hoping this
> > can be a contribution to a definition of ZOhOI formal enough to
> > present to the BPFK.
> >
> > -Alan
> > --
> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
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> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:[9]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> > 2. mailto:[10]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > 3. mailto:[11]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > 4. [12]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> --
> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>
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> --
> Alex R
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 2. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 3. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 4. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 5. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 6. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 7. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 8. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 9. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 10. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 11. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 12. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 13. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 14. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 15. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
--
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