I added this to the typography page, describing it as a thought
experiment. Thank you.
-Alan
On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 01:37:09PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:56 PM, .alyn.post.
> <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> xorxes pointed out earlier today in a different thread that
> zoi's delimiters must be valid lojban words. This excludes
> " from being used. Nevertheless, I give you points for
> cleverness there. :-D
>
> If one wanted to be too clever by half, one could argue that " is a
> representation of the cmevla {.quot.} like 4 is a representation of the
> namcu valsi {vo}.
>
> -Alan
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:40:59PM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> > I agree that zo'oi "Where are your keys?" should not be valid,
> although I
> > could see an argument for zoi " Where are your keys? " being made, or
> at
> > least for a zoi-like word which accepts non-word, non-letter
> delimiters.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 10:30 PM, .alyn.post.
> > <[1][2]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> >
> > Good catch, thank you. The definition of spaces in the (my) grammar
> > is:
> >
> > spaces <- ( comma* space-char )+ EOF?
> > / EOF
> >
> > Which includes what I understand to be a pause. (comma and space,
> > which includes punctuation like ? and !.)
> >
> > I've been experimenting with this part of the morphology, I believe
> > camxes includes Y (hesitation) here, which is an interesting
> > question:
> >
> > For ZOhOI, LAhOI, &c, anything that quotes a single word, is
> > hesitation allowed between zo'oi and the quoted word? zo permits
> > hesitation between between zo and the quoted word, but the quoted
> > word is Loban. If we permit hesitation between ZOhOI and the
> > quoting word, we don't allow ourselves to quote a foreign word that
> > coincidentally is .y.
> >
> > In theory, we could use ZOI and delimit the word in this case, so it
> > isn't a show-stopper. camxes actually doesn't permit this usage
> > either (though it is grammatical, you wind up with a parse tree that
> > is quoting nothing rather than quoting .y.), which is why I've been
> > experimenting with Y handling.
> >
> > Interesting question, nevertheless. Accuracy versus consistency?
> > What do you think?
> >
> > I also asked xalbo whether this this was valid usage:
> >
> > zo'oi "Where are your Keys?"
> >
> > And he opined no.
> >
> > -Alan
> > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 01:19:59PM +1100, Ross Ogilvie wrote:
> > > From jbovlaste, zo'oi acts to "quote next non-Lojban word only;
> quotes
> > a
> > > single non-Lojban word delimited by pauses (in speech) or whitespace
> > (in
> > > writing)".
> > >
> > > It seems to say that the pauses are required. ie
> > > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI spaces non-lojban-word spaces
> > >
> > > I don't know enough about the parsing of non-lojban-word to know if
> it
> > > will make a difference
> > >
> > > mu'o mi'e ros
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:48 AM, .alyn.post.
> [2][3][4]lojban@googlegroups.com.> > > <[1][2][3]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > In discussion with xalbo on #lojban, This is the proposed definition
> > > for ZOhOI as expressed in PEG. The '...' productions are existing
> > > rules in the grammar that surround the new definitions, which are
> > > shown here.
> > >
> > > ZOhOI <- &cmavo ( z o h o i ) &post-word -> ZOhOI
> > >
> > > ZOhOI-clause <- ZOhOI-pre ZOhOI-post
> > > -> ZOhOI-clause
> > > ZOhOI-pre <- pre-clause ZOhOI `spaces? non-lojban-word `spaces?
> > > ZOhOI-post <- post-clause
> > >
> > > CMAVO <- ...
> > > / ZOhOI
> > > / ...
> > >
> > > sumti-6 <- ...
> > > / ZOhOI-clause free*
> > > / ...
> > >
> > > known-cmavo-sa <- ...
> > > / ZOhOI-pre
> > > / ...
> > >
> > > ;; I'm not certain of the postfix to use here, this needs testing.
> > > ;; It may be just 'ZOhOI'
> > > ;;
> > > known-cmavo-pre <- ...
> > > / ZOhOI-pre
> > > / ...
> > >
> > > There are a small number of issues surrounding the ZOhOI-pre clause,
> > > and what exactly consitutes a non-lojban-word. All of this is
> > > untested, I wrote this up as a proof of concept. I'm hoping this
> > > can be a contribution to a definition of ZOhOI formal enough to
> > > present to the BPFK.
> > >
> > > -Alan
> > > --
> > > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
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> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > Visible links
> > > 1. mailto:[9][10]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> > > 2. mailto:[10][11]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > > 3. mailto:[11][12]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > > 4. [12][13]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> > --> > To post to this group, send email to [13][14]lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
> >
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> > For more options, visit this group at> > [15][16]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> >> > To post to this group, send email to [17]lojban@googlegroups.com.
> > --
> > Alex R
> >
> > --
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> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:[20]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> > 2. mailto:[21]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> > 3. mailto:[22]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > 4. mailto:[23]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > 5. [24]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> > 6. mailto:[25]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > 7. mailto:[26]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > 8. [27]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> > 9. mailto:[28]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> > 10. mailto:[29]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > 11. mailto:[30]lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > 12. [31]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> > 13. mailto:[32]lojban@googlegroups.com
> > 14. mailto:[33]lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> > 15. [34]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> --> To post to this group, send email to [35]lojban@googlegroups.com.
> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>
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>
> --
> Alex R
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 2. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 5. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 8. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 36. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> 9. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 10. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 11. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 12. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 13. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 14. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 15. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 16. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 17. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 18. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 19. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 20. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 21. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 22. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 23. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 24. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 25. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 26. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 27. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 28. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 29. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 30. mailto:lojban%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 31. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 32. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 33. mailto:lojban%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 34. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
> 35. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 37. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
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