[lojban] Re: I love Lojban's approach, but what's the deal with place tags?

["Joel T." <joelofarabia@gmail.com>]

That was my point exactly. True fluency means completely internalizing
a language so that the words just flow out of your mouth without
thinking. You're completely "out of the book" to use a chess
expression. And a community of truly fluent people would be influenced
more by each other than any conscious thought given to the official
rules of grammar. A true Sapir-Whorf test would demand nothing less.

The point I'm making about running two systems side-by-side is that in
any community of truly fluent people, either one of them would get
phased out, or they would diverge in meaning, usage, connotation etc.
At the very least it would become a way of differentiating between
cliques, which is the thin end of the wedge for dialectisation. You
just can't have two ways of doing exactly the same thing with only
whim to choose between them. It's great in class, but in the field
it's not tenable. It's not how language works.

On Apr 4, 10:04 pm, Luke Bergen <lukeaber...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think his point was that these dialectic splits could result in two groups
> of people not being able to understand one another.
>
> If one group of people liked using the place structure so much that they
> just ignored FA what would happen if they saw something like {fi lo zdani cu
> klama fa mi lo zarci} and got completely confused (you know, cuz generations
> later FA  would have basically been dropped out of the language by this
> group).
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturnian...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Joel T. <joelofara...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> In any case, surely running two systems side-by-side is asking for
> >> dialectisation (is that a word?), where speakers in one area get used
> >> to one system while speakers in another prefer the other?
>
> >   It can, and does.  But we consider the flexibility to be a plus.  That
> > way, any person coming from a natural language background of say, Turkish,
> > can from sentences the way that seems most natural to them, while someone
> > coming from an English background can form setnences the most natural way to
> > them.  And both will be understood equally well.  We had, for example, a
> > while a back, a discussion over which was "better": to use "cu" often, or to
> > totally eschew it in favor of sumti that are competely terminated so that
> > there was no need for it (i.e. "lo gerku cu barda" vs. "lo gerku ku
> > barda").  There are vocal proponents on each side, so it amounts to a
> > dialectical split, but.. so what?
> >                --gejyspa
>
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