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Re: [lojban] "lo no"



Yes, except if broda is "x1 is a can of oranges", I don't think {lo se pi mu mei broda} is a fuzzy set at all. Half a can of oranges is another can of oranges with its contents cut in half, so it forms {lo se pa mei broda}. (On the other hand this may ultimately be malgli/malrarbau, which would beg the question of how to reasonably briefly express "half a can of oranges" in non-malgli/malrarbau terms.)

You're right, though, that {se te pi mu mei} does make formal sense, it just has no similarity to its natlang counterpart whatsoever. Consequently (assuming {mei} still maintains all its places) {pi mu mei} also has no similarity to its natlang counterpart whatsoever.

Good catch though.

mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
  Actually, in fuzzy logic, a member can indeed be only "half in" a set.  Therefore cardinalities of other-than-non-negative integers has a place in set theory. No reason why lojbaniss shouldn't be able to talk about it.
 
               --gejyspa


 
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
On the discussion about pi PA mei: ignore x3s and consider the predicate:
se te pi mu mei
This is "x1 is a set whose 1/2 members are x2". This makes no sense; you can't have a set with cardinality 1/2. I think part of the problem here is that we've never resolved the issue of masses (here these are not technically masses, but we are considering one object and removing some of its components, leaving behind something that resembles the original object in some clear sense) with respect to set theory. (At least as far as I know, maybe this was handled at some point.) The ad hoc solution would be to remove the relation to sets from mei altogether; set {lo se mei} to be zi'o in all cases and leave it at that. The better solution would be to figure out, in a formal sense, what exactly about "a can of oranges" causes it to make sense to say "half of a can of oranges", and more importantly what makes "a half a person" make only figurative (or, I suppose, cannibalistic, if you're into that sort of thing) sense.

This really has rather little to do with {lo no}, though.

mu'o mi'e .latros.

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