Re: [lojban] Masses

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

2011/5/14 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
>
> 1. Is {lo jenmi cu sonci} usually true?

I would say armies are more than just soldiers, just like houses are
more than just bricks, even if soldiers and bricks are their main
components.

> 2. Is {lo sonci cu jenmi} usually true?

No, not generally. A particular group of soldiers (plus all the
structure involving them) may be an army, but soldiers in general are
not armies.

> 3. For what kind of X can I guarantee {X cu broda naje broda} to be false?

A contradiction is always false.

If you had said "broda nagi'e brode" then there are plenty of escapes:
"ti zunle (ta) nagi'e zunle (tu)", so something can easily be to the
left and not to the left, simply by picking different reference points
for each "zunle", but "broda naje broda" sounds more like a pure
contradiction since presumably all the other arguments and context for
each of the "broda" are shared.

> 4. What kind of X can refer to a group of three dogs and two cats as a
> single object for which {X cu gerku je mlatu} is false?

"gerku je mlatu" would seem to be false of any non-fictional creatures
that I know of. To refer to a group of three dogs and two cats I would
use "lo ci gerku jo'u lo re mlatu", and to say of them that they are
dogs and cats I would use "cu gerku jo'u mlatu". But you are asking
how to say something false, not something true, so I would say "lo ci
gerku jo'u lo re mlatu cu gerku je mlatu" is generally false, unless
we are in some science fictional setting involving dogcats.

> 5. How can I unambiguously say "The army is composed of a thousand soldiers",
> as opposed to "a thousand divisions" or "a thousand limbs"?
> Perhaps {lo jenmi cu ki'omei lo'i sonci}?

I would say:

lo jenmi cu ki'omei lo sonci
lo jenmi cu gunma lo ki'o sonci
lo jenmi cu se sonci ki'o da

as opposed to (using "jenpau" for "division"):

lo jenmi cu ki'omei lo jenpau
lo jenmi cu gunma lo ki'o jenpau
lo jenmi cu se pagbu ki'o da

(I wouldn't know how to connect limbs with armies. Armies do not
consist of limbs, at least not literally. The limbs of the soldiers of
an army are not limbs of the army, and in any case a soldier does not
consist of limbs.)

> 6. How can I unambiguously say "The army is powerful", as opposed to "it has
> a powerful soldier" or "it has a powerful division"?

  lo jenmi cu tsali

  lo jenmi cu se sonci lo tsali

  lo jenmi cu se pagbu lo tsali

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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