Re: [lojban] [nomik] pa mo'o ci moi javni

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 12:06:04AM -0400, .arpis. wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:18 PM, Robin Lee Powell <
> rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 09:02:44PM -0400, .arpis. wrote:
> > > .i drani
> > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u filsmu seja'enai lo du'u barda
> >
> > That reminds me that we need to nail down that whole "despite"
> > thing; .oi
> >
> > What you did is just fine; I also reccomend {ju} to your attention;
> > one of the few places I like logical connections for causal-type
> > thoughts.
> >
> > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u mi selzdi
> > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u citri vajni
> > > .i li pi mu te sumji ki'u lo du'u zdile palci pe'a zo'o co'e
> > > .i li re sumji
> >
> > .io se'i .e'e .ui ro'a
>
> mi mutce nalmo'i .oi sai tu'a zo ju
> 
> But {ju} is unfortunately logically incorrect for "despite" (as I
> understand "despite"). 

It's "A regardless of B", which is pretty much the same thing IMO;
"I like blue despite my red shit" =~ "I like blue regardless of my
red shirt".

> It's kinda like {seku'i} (if {ku'i} weren't a UI): "A [and]
> however B" vs "A [and] despite B" In both cases, "A and B" is
> entailed, however the first implicates that A usually entails not
> B, and the second implicates that B usually entails not A.

It's true, {ju} doesn't entail B, but it doesn't deny it either.

What you're talking about ("A AND B, even though that's unusual") is
ku'i, though.

Like I said, the whole "ri'a nai == despite" thing needs some
review, because it's not a terribly obvious result of the cmavo
involved.  I think {ki'u ku'i} would have encoded the same meaning
with more clarity.

> Also, am I using {du'u} correctly? I tend to think of it when I am
> tempted in English to say "that" or "the fact that" (and {nu} when
> I use the infinitive)

That's also how I read it.

-Robin

-- 
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Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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