Re: [lojban] Lojban puzzles

[Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com>]

I should have clarified; I was asking about the difference. I can see how their meanings are different, but there's some subtlety in the first place that I feel I should have a better grasp of.

Just to make sure I understood the example, I'll try to translate it to English:

Someone avoiding doing x isn't a volitional entity doing x, but who causes someone else to do x.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

Is this a puzzle or are you asking about the difference between zukte and gasnu?

In case the latter:
gasnu has x1 bringing about an event.  mi gasnu lo nu lo fagri cu sisti -> I put out the fire.
zukte has x1 doing a thing. mi zukte lo nu bajkla lo mi zdani -> I run to my house.

The trick I use to keep them straight is that if it feels weird to have the x1 agent as one of the sumti in the x2 event, then it's probably gasnu.  It doesn't always work but it usually helps frame the question.

I'm sure one of the jbocei will chime in shortly and give a more technically precise distinction

On Jun 22, 2011 10:10 PM, ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:

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