Assuming that you really are feeling a sympathetic emotion for your heater (or are faking it for some reason),' UI dai ' makes perfect sense. Otherwise, not so much. But (see the aforementioned half-Century battle) any hint of propositional content is to be rejected completely. There are perfectly good shortcuts available: the Lojban version of "This is a 'Whoopee! Kind of day for you", where the attitudinal WORD is incorporated, one way pr another, into the predicate or NP.
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I believe John's stance on this point (and I guess I half agree) is that {dai} does not say "you feel emotion X" it says "I feel empathy towards you with regard to emotion X" or something like that.
How can I say "YIKES... for you". At that point I'm expressing a bridi involving "terpa" and not ".iidai". I do agree that the jbocecmu (myself at the forefront) seems to have a habit of trying to use attitudinals as shortcuts for "you must be feeling X" instead of using the gismu that were made for such expressions.
But, I can also understand wanting to be able to express as an attitudinal that idea of "I feel emotion X with you" almost as though your emotional state is such that I am joining in with it through you. As in "lo do se rirni cu mutce stati tu'a lo pipno .o'adai"
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:52 AM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to figure all the various discussions under this label out. Let me summarize what I understand and then set me straight.
1) Since 'xu dai' makes little sense literally, I take it it is an idiom of some sort, apparently meaning "What is the appropriate UI to use here, with reference to someone else?", I.e., "What would contextually defined so and so have used at this point in this sentence --suitably edited?" So, 'mi xu dai klama?' asks you what someone (contextually you, again, but I supposed there is a way to assign it otherwise) would have said in the frame 'do ... klama.' (or maybe, in this case, 'la pycyn ... klama'). The correct answer is presumably something like 'zo ui' ( with an appropriate choice of UI). The answer which seems to be given is 'ui', which clearly wrong in two ways: it is now an _expression_ of the respondent's response to being asked the question (or something like that) and not someone's response to my coming and b) if it were to be that it would be deceptive since it would not actually express that emotion (in the usual case) but rather simulate it after it had gone away.
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