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Re: [lojban] Klingon proverbs in Lojban

No, not anything of selma'o PA; a number that is unspecified but considered obvious from context. The point of {za'u re'u}=={za'u xo'e re'u} is that {za'u re'u}=={za'u pa re'u}, which is the current equivalence means that something happens for the >1th time it has ever happened, which could just be the 2nd time it has ever happened. This doesn't carry the connotation of "again", even if it does carry the denotation of "again". Consider something like {xu do za'u re'u klama le zarci}. The connotation of "again" there is that the number {za'u PA} is somehow "large" in some sense; for example, if you went to the store for the 100th time in your life today, going to the store for the 101st time might be surprising if you don't usually go to the store twice in one day. On the other hand with the {za'u pa re'u} meaning it really doesn't carry any weight whatsoever because it isn't surprising that you went to the store at all today and because you've definitely gone to the store in the past.

The only real counterargument I see to this is that the universe of discourse can have a temporal scope, so that {lo pa re'u nu mi klama le zarci} could refer to the first time I went to the store *today* even though I've gone to the store hundreds of times in the past. This seems like a weak counterargument to me because of the inability to conveniently specify the temporal scope of the universe of discourse (which is something of a problem anyway, to be frank).

mu'o mi'e latros
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
If I understand ze'ei correctly, then {zo'e ze'ei pa} means, basically, "unspecified number", or, in other words, "anything of selma'o PA", which means it includes numbers <=1, irrational numbers, imaginary numbers, etc. Since something must happen more than once to happen "again", {za'u xo'e re'u to zo xo'e selsmu lu zo'e ze'ei pa li'u toi} does not have the same meaning.

When something happens for the 2nd time {re re'u}, it is happening again.
When something happens for the 3rd time {ci re'u}, it is happening again.
When something happens for the 4th time {vo re'u}, it is happening again.
...
When something happens for the (x>1)th time {za'u [pa] re'u}, it is happening again.



On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
If the default number were to be made {xo'e} (which has been proposed to mean {zo'e ze'ei pa}, especially now that its current meaning is useless with xorlo in place) instead of {pa}, then {za'u re'u} would be implicitly {za'u xo'e re'u}, which would definitely work for "again", I think.

mu'o mi'e latros


On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 12:16 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:


On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Friday 05 August 2011 01:43:04 MorphemeAddict wrote:
> gunta fa la veklarg
>
> I don't know how to say "again" ('x+1'th occurrence?).

za'ure'u - that's what it was in Alice.

Pierre
Does "za'u re'u" already contain the idea of 'time' or 'occurrence'? It seems to be just an ordinal number meaning 'further', 'additional'.
 
Does this work:
za'u re'u gunta fa la veklarg
 
I also found "krefu", but I don't know if/how "krefu" can be used to get the meaning of 'again'.
 
stevo

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