Re: [lojban] gadri and scope

[Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org>]

* Tuesday, 2011-09-06 at 18:44 -0300 - Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> > {ro da zo'u da brode lo broda be da bei de}
> >
> > should be equivalent (under xorlo) to one of
> >
> > (i) {ro da su'o de zo'u da brode zo'e noi broda da de}
> > (ii) {ro da zo'u da brode zo'e noi su'o de zo'u broda da de}
> > (iii) {ro da zo'u da brode zo'e noi su'o de su'o di broda de di}.
> >
> > Which?
> >
> > I think (ii) is the best choice, on the bases of naturality and
> > usefulness.
> 
> I agree (but see comment below).
> 
> > (i) is what you'd get if you took exportation to the prenex as a golden
> > rule, and (iii) is what you'd get if you considered it all-important
> > that {lo} give a constant.
> 
> I'm probably the only one who talks about "lo" giving a constant, but
> I never meant for that to contrast with functions. "lo" gives a
> constant as opposed to a bindable variable (da poi ...). It would be
> more correct to say it creates a function, albeit a constant function
> in most cases. So I don't think you will have anyone arguing for
> (iii).

Excellent. Glad we agree.

> > (ii) makes its own sense - it's what you get if you consider tanru
> > units, linkargs included, to correspond directly to relative clauses.
> 
> The only issue with (ii) is that it gives the "unexpected" reading to
> things like "lo mamta be ro da cu prami da".
> 
> We always have the option of using the explicit prenex forms when
> there is a risk of confusion, and anyone who says "lo mamta be ro da
> cu prami da" when they do mean "lo mamta be ro da cu prami su'o de" is
> obviously just looking for trouble.

I think people will be quite capable of internalising the rule which
gives the "unexpected" meaning. But yes, avoiding variable reuse will
always be a friendly thing to do.

Martin

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