2011/9/7 Jorge Llambías
<jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Michael Turniansky
<
mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> From googling it, I see that you are using "claselkre" to mean "Mane",
> your long hair group. But, I have to ask... why "claselkre"? You are a se
> ke clani kerfa, not a clani se kerfa. (Well, maybe you are long. I'm not
> sure.) I mean, sure, you can assign the places however you wish, but it
> does seem to be the wrong underlying tanru)
No, but that's because I think of it as a "cinfo kalte", not as the more precise "kalte be lo cinfo". Similarly, when I see "claselkre", I think of it as clani se kerfa. (Although certainly, if I was defining it in lojban for dictionary, I would use the latter). Because I would define "long hair" as "clani kerfa" (it would not be a kerfa clani, for the would that would be a long thing that is hairy, which may or may not actually be hair), I would think of the possessor of long hair as a se ke clani kerfa. And that's what I would base my lujvo on (there's a reason they have "kem" as a rafsi, you know).
In general, "brode zei broda" for "broda be lo brode" will not shock
an English speaker as long as brode corresponds to a noun in English,
but Lojban doesn't divide its words into nouns and adjectives, so
"claselkre" for "se krefu be lo clani" shouldn't be so shocking. Lots
of lujvo follow that pattern.
I see your point, although I don't think it's as much the noun thing as you think it is. I would have no problem thinking of a xunkalte as either a hunter who is red, or a hunter who hunts red things, depending on what the definition actually is, but I would still see it as "xunre kalte" first, and work from there. On the other hand, were I to see "cinfyselkre", I would see "cinfo se kerfa (not krefu, btw, but I forgive you like you forgive me for constantly mixing up ciska/citka)", and it assume it something with hair, who had a lionish aspect to him (and not necessarily that aspect being lionish hair).
--gejyspa