Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Martin Bays <mbays@sdf.org> wrote:
> * Saturday, 2011-11-05 at 13:00 -0300 - Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>
>> It seems to me the only way you could do that is shift domains in
>> mid-deduction, which is not a valid move.
>
> Make that "metadeduce", if you insist.

So a metadeduction allows reasonable shifts in the domain of
discourse, right? (We need "reasonable" for otherwise any
non-contradiction could probably be metadeduced from anything.)

> If we know that every resident is ruled by a non-resident, which is what
> we would understand by {ro xabju cu se turni su'o na'e xabju}, then we
> could conclude that there are some kinds of non-resident which rule
> every resident,

I would say a reasonable metadeduction is "some kind" rather than
"some kinds", namely the resident-ruling kind of non-resident. I can't
think of any other reasonable kind of non-resident rulers from that
context.

>which I believe is a meaning you would ascribe to
> {su'o na'e xabju cu turni ro xabju}.

I would or I could? It is not the meaning I would ascribe to it out of
the blue. My first choice would be to use the same individuation
criteria for both "xabju" and "na'e xabju", since they are almost the
same predicate.

> So {ro xabju cu se turni su'o na'e xabju .i .ua su'o na'e xabju cu turni
> ro xabju} would be a reasonable thought process (with a domain switch
> having occurred between the sentences).
>
> No?

Not for me, no. This seems to be more about psychology than about
logic. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to jump from one domain to
another like that without any indication that you are doing so. I
would have no problem with ".i ju'o su'o klesi be lo na'e xabju cu
turni ro xabju". And then, once that class of non residents is in the
picture, I wouldn't object to you saying something about "lo na'e
xabju poi turni ro xabju". But we are not talking about any logical
deductions here.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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