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Re: [lojban] {zo'e} as close-scope existentially quantified plural variable

Jorge Llambías, On 05/11/2011 15:20:

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:49 PM, And Rosta<and.rosta@gmail.com>  wrote:

Jorge Llambías, On 05/11/2011 01:51:


The whole point of xorlo was to get away from the idea that "lo
ransedyta'u" was equivalent to "su'o ransedyta'u".


They're different because su'o is scope-sensitive and lo isn't, but I see no
difference between {PA ransedyta'u cu se dasni ro faspre} and {ro faspre cu
dasni lo PA ransedyta'u} (where PA is {pa} in each or {su'o} in each).


For me an outer PA immediately suggests a non-singleton domain, which
"lo pa" explicitly contradicts, so getting "pa ransedyta'u cu se dasni
ro faspre" and "ro faspre cu dasni lo pa ransedyta'u" to give me the
same picture takes some effort.


Aha, yes of course. Now I do see the difference.

I presume you'd agree with me that "pa mapku cu se dasni ro faspre" can be true (in a world where they all wear berets)? In Blobular metaphysics, that is, rather than Martin's preferred Ready-Made.


Of
course, if you stuck {na ku} in front, they'd become nonequivalent again,
because that would trigger the scope-sensitivity of PA.


In the domain in which both are true, sticking a "na ku" in front
would make them both false, so why would they become nonequivalent?


{na ku pa broda cu brode} is true if {re broda cu brode}, and if the number of brodas that brode is anything but 1. {na ku lo broda cu brode} means the same as {lo broda na ku brode}.

In other words they'd become non-equivalent relative to general truth-conditions, not relative to a particular domain in which both unnegated versions were true.

--And.

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