Re: [lojban] state of {binxo}

[tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>]

2011/12/6 Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>:
> While I don't consider the concept of an object becoming a different
> one to be illogical, I do opine that it brings more complications and
> is less useful than that of an object acquiring a property.

That seems to involve the assumption that there are *essential*
objects that persist throughout the flux of perceived changes. Is a
tree essentially a seed that has acquired lo ka tricu, or is it the
tree that virtually appears to be a seed due to lo ka tsiju that the
tree cyclically acquires and loses over generations? Or are both of
them property-acquired forms of a soil, or the Earth, or star-stuff?
How would we consistently tell "the real object" (binxo1) from
derivative properties (binxo2)? Wouldn't that be complicated?

I said that binxo1 & binxo2 are not properties from the grammatical
viewpoint. We don't usually say {lo djacu cu binxo lo *ka* bisli} (but
we can say {lo djacu co'a ckaji lo ka bisli}). And, when I say {lo
djacu cu binxo lo bisli}, I don't necessarily mean that "an object
which essentially is water" turns into "an object which essentially is
ice"; I could mean that energy changes its appearance from water to
ice.


> If binxo2 is just an object that comes to existence while taking the place
> of binxo1, then mu'a
>  {ko'a binxo lo bisli}
> doesn't entail at all that
>  {ko'a na bisli pu lonu binxo},
> since it could just as well refer to an iceberg becoming an ice sculpture.

Although {ko'a binxo lo bisli} (something becomes a quantity of ice)
wouldn't be a meaningful statement if {ko'a} wasn't {na bisli}, I see
your point, for which I would more consider {ko'a noi bisli cu binxo
ko'e noi bisli} (something which is ice becomes something else which
is ice).


> ra'unai in English grammar, "The water becomes ice" is analysed as
> subject-verb-predicate, just like "It seems blue", and unlike "I love you",
> which is subject-verb-object.

"The water becomes ice" seems analogous to {lo djacu co'a bisli}.
{*lo* bisli} may be more accurately translated as "a quantity of ice".


mu'o

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