[lojban] Re: Metalinguistic sumti-to-selbri operator

[Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com>]

I just found out about latros' {me'au} and {me'ei}.

Yes: his {me'au} is exactly the same as my {me'ei}.

(His {me'ei} seems to be a somewhat redundant synonym for {lo ka}.).

Since his definitons of these words seem to be a couple of months
old, I kind of wish he would invert his words to make {me'ei} match
what I and others have already been using for four years.

But it's a great validation of the concept to see someone else come
up with exactly the same thing.

On Dec 19 2011, 5:12 am, tsani nicte <nicty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think this is an interesting proposal, but on behalf of latros, I'm
> mentioning that he has created a definition for [me'ei] already.
> Also, his definition is already on jbovlaste:http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/me'ei
> Also, he (and some others) have already begun to use it, which his other
> coined terms po'oi, no'oi, and me'au, for transcending the limits of
> first-order predicate logic, which is kind of what your proposal seems to
> do (unless I'm seriously misunderstanding, which I easily might.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't think I understand this. How would you say what {.i do ko'a me'ei
> > lo melbi} says without using me'ei?
>
> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Daniel Brockman <dbrock...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> I think we should have a generic operator for converting a sumti referring
> >> to a selbri into a selbri.  I propose calling it {me'ei}.  It'd be part
> >> of ME.
>
> >> For example,
>
> >>    i do ko'a me'ei lo melbi
> >>    You have a beautiful relation to ko'a.
>
> >>    i pe'i la xalbo na me'ei lo smuni be lo cmene be vo'a
> >>    I don't think xalbo lives up to his name.
>
> >> This plugs a language hole that may be somewhat theoretical but in my
> >> opinion
> >> is pretty fundamental.  It also provides a way to define things like
> >> {me'oi}:
>
> >>    {me'oi foo} = {me'ei lo smuni be zo'oi foo}
>
> >> And if you don't like {bu'a}, which is a bit awkward to quantify,
> >> depending on
> >> your standard for awkwardness, you can just use {me'ei da}.
>
> >> All in all, it's a powerful tool for talking about and manipulating
> >> predicates.
>
> >> For example, one could define a brivla like this:
>
> >>    {kibro} = {me'ei lo smuni be zo kibro bei la jbovlaste}
>
> >> Now, maybe that's not how you interpret it, but at least now you can
> >> talk about it in a precise manner.
>
> >> Thoughts?
>
> >> --
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>
> > --
> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
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