On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Pierre Abbat
<phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Monday, March 05, 2012 03:30:58 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> The problem is that it is the gender of the married person that is taken
> into account, not the gender of the person being spoken of. Whether I am a
> brother-in-law or a sister-in-law has nothing to do with the gender of my
> married sibling.
>
> Also, why does it matter which of the two is the married one? If Man1
> marries Woman1 who has a brother Man2, Man2 is Man1's brother-in-law, and
> Man1 is Man2's brother-in-law. If Man1 also has a biological or adopted
> brother Man3, then Man2 and Man3 are also each other's brothers-in-law,
> even if neither of them are married.
>
> If any sibling from family A marries any sibling from family B, then every
> sibling in family A is a sibling-in-law to every sibling in family B,
> except for the two who are married, as they are spouses, not
> siblings-in-law.
You seem to be unacquainted with different kinship term systems. Inlaws zo'u,
Lojban is descriptive, whereas English is classificatory. There are some
languages in which different terms for "cousin" are used depending on whether
their parents are siblings of the same sex or of different sexes. There's no
reason why Lojban should use the same system as English.
Actually, I can think of one reason for using a classification system.
The brother of a man married to a woman with a sister is said sister's brother-in-law.
"A is B's brother-in-law" is much simpler than "A is the brother of the husband of the sister of B".
That said, who says we need to have only one or the other? I am sure there will be times where a descriptive label is a better choice than a classification label, and vice-versa. At this point in time, Lojban doesn't really have either, and is capable of having both, so I see no reason not to have both systems.
I don't know enough of Hindi, Chinese, or Arabic to say anything about their
kinship terms, but I do know some Spanish and Russian. Both languages preserve
some in-law terms inherited from Indo-European. Russian is more descriptive,
Spanish more classificatory.
Spanish has:
nuera: daughter-in-law
lo ninmu goi ko'a tixnu ko'e ki'u lodu'u lo ko'a se lanzu cu speni lo ko'e se rirni
.i ko'a ti'uspe ko'e
yerno: son-in-law
lo nanmu goi ko'a bersa ko'e ki'u lodu'u lo ko'a se lanzu cu speni lo ko'e se rirni
.i ko'a be'aspe ko'e
cuñado, cuñada: brother-in-law, sister-in-law (in both directions)
lo nanmu goi ko'a bruna ko'e lodu'u lo ko'a se lanzu cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu to ko'a na speni ko'e toi
.i ko'a bunspe ko'e
lo ninmu goi ko'a mensi ko'e lodu'u lo ko'a se lanzu cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu to ko'a na speni ko'e toi
.i ko'a me'ispe ko'e
lo prenu goi ko'a tunba ko'e lodu'u lo ko'a se lanzu cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu to ko'a na speni ko'e toi
.i ko'a tubyspe ko'e
suegro, suegra: father-in-law, mother-in-law
lo nanmu goi ko'a patfu ko'e ki'u lodu'u lo ko'a se rirni cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu
.i ko'a pafspe ko'e
lo ninmu goi ko'a mamta ko'e ki'u lodu'u lo ko'a se rirni cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu
.i ko'a mamyspe ko'e
lo prenu goi ko'a rirni ko'e ki'u lodu'u lo ko'a se rirni cu speni lo ko'e se lanzu
.i ko'a rirspe ko'e
Russian has:
сноха: a man's son's wife
lo ninmu goi ko'a fetspe lo bersa be lo nanmu goi ko'e
.i ko'a fetspebe'a ko'e ?
зять: daughter's husband
lo nanmu goi ko'a nakspe lo tixnu be ko'e
.i ko'a nakspeti'u ko'e ?
деверь: husband's brother
lo nanmu goi ko'a bruna lo nakspe be ko'e
.i ko'a bunynakspe ko'e ?
свёкор: husband's father
lo nanmu goi ko'a patfu lo nakspe be ko'e
.i ko'a pafnakspe ko'e ?
тесть: wife's father
lo nanmu goi ko'a patfu lo fetspe be ko'e
.i ko'a pafyfetspe ko'e ?
Cognates:
сноха=nuera (and Old English snoru, lost in Modern English)
зять=yerno
деверь (Latin levir, lost in Spanish)
свёкор=suegro (and Old English sweor, lost in Modern English).
Pierre
--
gau do li'i co'e kei do