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Re: [lojban] footnotes, etc?
Point? You don't use footnotes in spoken anything. In written anything, you use the standard footnote conventions. Loglan long ago (1960) had an array of typesetting cmavo which were soon discarded as totally irrelevant;why bring them back?
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On Mar 8, 2012, at 7:49 PM, ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you sure you meant {xo'e}?
>
> za'a It's an experimental cmavo meaning the same thing as {lo}.
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Huh how coincidental, I was discussing footnotes and endnotes in #lojban
>> just a few days ago.
>> It seems like there are many ways to do this, some of which use only
>> standard lojban, and a few others which require experimental cmavo. I'd
>> strongly prefer to see the first variety be used, naturally.
>>
>> 1) Works only after a sumti. [ko'a nesa'a zo'e pe li xo'e], where xo'e is
>> the number of the footnote/endnote. Replacing [zo'e] with something more
>> precise would allow for disambiguation in that regard. For "footnote" in
>> particular, I'd suggest [ko'a nesa'a lo papri fanmo notci pe li xo'e]. The
>> use of [sa'a] is perhaps optional.
>>
>> 2) Works anywhere. Wrap the following in a to/to'i...toi: [e'u catlu zo'e pe
>> li xo'e], where zo'e and xo'e are replaced as in the previous solution. This
>> solution is arguably less good than #1, as when using a to...toi, I don't
>> think that it's good practice to refer to the surrounding text. Of course,
>> using to'i...toi is perhaps better.
>>
>> 3) Requires a new cmavo and works only after sumti. Let xi'i be a cmavo of
>> XI, meaning "see footnote".
>>
>> 4) Requires a new cmavo and works everywhere. Let mai'a be a cmavo of MAI,
>> meaning "see footnote".
>>
>> 5) Requires a new cmavo, uses nonstandard Lojban, and works everywhere. Let
>> xi'i be a cmavo of XI and let XI equate to a free modifier.
>>
>> These are the solutions that I can think of; there are certainly more. Also,
>> [xi'i] and [mai'a] are completely made up, they aren't in jvovlaste or known
>> by any lojbanists, unless of course someone else has been using one or the
>> other or both for some other purpose, in which case I apologise.
>>
>> As for the text of the footnotes, there are many possibilities again. Each
>> footnote could be individually wrapped in a TO...toi, or the full text of
>> the footnotes could be wrapped in a single parenthetical remark. Also, one
>> could also simply use [ni'o]...[no'i] for the text of the footnotes. This
>> would be more inline with the solutions not involving wrapping the footnote
>> number in a parenthetical remark, as I believe that it is bad to refer to
>> the contents of a parenthetical remark from within the main text. (IIRC, the
>> CLL says not to do so as well.) I suggest using [mai] to mark the number
>> being used for the following text until another [mai] is reached. If [mai]
>> is already being used in the main text and confusion might result from using
>> regular [mai], perhaps the footnotes could all be negative numbers, in order
>> to ensure that there's no confusion between a reference to a footnote and a
>> reference to another section. Also, if [mai] is being used in a situation
>> where the text of a footnote contains a reference to a footnote, it would
>> become impossible to use subscripting as suggested below. In that case, I
>> would suggest using a zo'u-and-tu'e..tu'u system like so: {i lo papri fanmo
>> notci pe li pa xi re zo'u tu'e i li'o tu'u}. Using [ni'o] for each new
>> footnote might be a good idea as well, but this makes wrapping the whole
>> footnote section in [ni'o]...[no'i] more confusing.
>>
>> As for footnotes within footnotes, (footnoteception? :P ) it is possible to
>> use subscripting to disambiguate, using any of the solutions mentioned
>> above, except the solutions involving [mai], as the number preceding [mai]
>> cannot be subscripted. [mai] itself may not be subscripted either, unless
>> the author adheres to XI-as-a-free-modifier (which is nonstandard Lojban).
>>
>> i ma se jinvi
>> mu'o mi'e la tsani
>>
>>
>> On 8 March 2012 19:34, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey! .skaryzgik. is back! Hoorah!
>>>
>>> Regarding your question, I'm pretty sure we have header and footer cmavo,
>>> but I don't know what they are nor have the time currently to look them up.
>>> Hopefully .xorxes. or Pierre or Robin can provide better information on
>>> that.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Marjorie Scherf <skaryzgik@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> coi rodo
>>>>
>>>> So, I've been reading a lot of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series in the
>>>> last week or so, which, those if any of you who are familiar with these
>>>> books may be aware, are full of footnotes. A little asterisk at the end, or
>>>> in the middle, of a sentence, corresponding to one at the bottom of the
>>>> page, which explains the thing immediately preceding the one above, or tells
>>>> some related story. Sometimes even the footnotes have footnotes. And, since
>>>> these books are also reminding me of several things I want to use lojban
>>>> for, the various strands of thought tangled together and I wondered how
>>>> lojban would accomplish something similar. Would we merely use
>>>> parentheticals, or would something else be more appropriate?
>>>>
>>>> mu'omi'e la .jdakrat.skaryzgik.
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>>>
>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
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