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Re: [lojban] Homonyms in Stage 3 fu'ivla



Isn't finding something equivalent to learning its location, in which case the two definitions *are* the same, where facki2 for the second defintion is {lo ka makau se zvati ce'u} ? Also, {facki} by itself seems extremely redundant to djuno, minus a tense implication ({facki} seems to me like {co'a djuno}). It also seems like {cilre} is a {co'a djuno} + built-in modal places. Same for {ctuca} (considering that the teaching succeeds, of course.)

compare:
mi facki lo du'u do jbocre [kei do]
mi facki lo du'u lo mi cukta cu zvati makau [kei lo mi cukta]
mi co'a djuno lo du'u do jbocre [kei do]
mi co'a djuno lo du'u lo mi cukta cu zvati makau [kei lo mi cukta]
mi cilre lo du'u do jbocre [kei do la irk lo nu mi'o casnu bau lo lojbo]
do ctuca mi lo du'u do jbocre [kei do lo nu mio casnu bau lo lojbo]

Now, it seems like the difference between {cilre} and {ctuca} is volition on the part of ctuca1/cilre4.
Here's my lojban definition of what {ctuca} means:
lo ka ce'u goi ko'a ctuca ce'u goi ko'e ce'u goi ko'i ce'u goi ko'o ce'u goi ko'u cu ka ce'u goi ko'a zukte ce'u goi ko'u lo nu ce'u goi ko'e cilre ce'u goi ko'i ce'u goi ko'o ko'u

IMHO determining the location of an object is more akin to losing that object than "beginning to know something". Thus {cirko} and {to'e cirko}/{tolcri} are more appropriate.

mi cirko tu'a lo mi cukta
mi tolcri tu'a lo mi cukta

(I'm working under the anal-retentive assumption that cirko is "lose property" and tolcri is "acquire property" (hence the sumti-raising), in which case in a bare-bones lojban, {tolcri} is equivalent to {binxo})

mu'o mi'e la tsani

2012/3/9 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>
Dnia piątek, 9 marca 2012 o 19:11:45 MorphemeAddict napisał(a):
>  What about this definition of "facki" is more than one meaning?
>
> x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about subject/object x3; x1 finds (fi) x3 (object)
>
> It looks to me like several English phrases used to clarify the one meaning.

Aren't:

x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about subject/object x3
x1 finds (fi) x3 (object)

two different definitions of two different concepts? To me it borders on malglico ;)
--
Ecce Jezuch
"We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed." - T. Haake

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