Re: [lojban] Pokemon translation

[djandus <jandew@gmail.com>]

> However, there's no issue with having a brivla
> name.

I forget this more often than I care to admit.

Anywho, I don't know fu'ivla morphology at all so I am totally at others' mercy when it comes to naming pokemon with brivla. In other words, where I deprecated the cmevla for the items list, please still keep two columns in the pokemon list. That way, if I come close to completing the game and that's the last holdup, I can finish it myself.

> I agree, though, it's not very useful, and should be
> removed.

Just to clarify, this was a bit of me making a statement about brivla definitions. The place structure is for things that can actually change within the definition, and there's no such thing as a water-type Pikachu, only an electric-type. If I were putting it in jbovlaste, I'd say

x1 is a Pikachu [electric-type pokemon] at level x2 trained by x3

(alternatively, the type would be in the notes)

In conversation, one could say

.i .ui mi kavbu lo broda

.i broda .uanai .i lo broda ku pokrjutsi ma

Also, {piktcu} is a proper lujvo, so you were using it as a nonce word and isn't what you'd put for the actual term, right?

> Yes, selpa'i had mentioned it in #lojban (why don't you come hang out
> there with us ? :) )

Time -- sadly, I don't have enough of it. However, jbonunsla has made me really get back into wanting to get on IRC. (That is, I'm back in the "Lojban! Cannot get enough of it!" mode. Have to get my fix!) So you may see me every now and then :)

> we're technically not allowed to make up rafsi at all

That makes total sense. So, how about we claim to only use the rafsi within the game universe? (That is: We made up this rafsi for the pokemon games! It is only to be used to keep within character limits, so it is inadvisable to use it outside the game. We hold no responsibility on anypony using it in conversation, and our translation is immediately deprecated if the BPFK decides to assign it to a word.)

Keep in mind, I say this because I know nothing about fu'ivla construction. If you can figure out a way around using {pok} in any of our terms that keeps the character limit, be my guest.

> > pokrjutsi: x1 is a pokemon species of type(s) x2 with evolutions/family x3

fixed :)

I'm getting better at catching disallowed consonant clusters, but I still rely on jvozba regularly.

> > broda poi pokjutsi: x1 is a [broda] at level x2 trained by x3
>
> Each pokemon brivla should probably encode the level. e.g. piktcu = x1
> is a level x2 pikachu.
> Pokemon brivla shouldn't include the trainer.
> That makes {broda poi pokjutsi} unuseful, not to mention that it isn't
> grammatical.

Sorry, I was trying to say "some brivla that is used for a pokemon species." I was trying to restrict broda, not make some claim that {lo broda poi pokjutsi} would be a useful phrase.

Now that I think of it, I really can't find much use/need/backing/reasoning behind putting a trainer place in.

> I suggest {pokrlei} for "pokemon type", in the sense of electric, ice,
> water, fire, etc.
> pokrlei = x1 is the type of pokemon x2.
> Using this, we can say {lo piktcu cu se pokrlei lo dikca} "Pikachu is
> an electric-type pokemon."

And what's wrong with {lo broda ku pokrjutsi lo dikca}?

I would normally be not terribly opposed, but we are inventing very niche jargon here, and it would be best to have a few very versatile words rather than a lot that are used even less often.

(keep in mind, {lo se pokrjutsi} is useful, too)

> I suggest {pokrtro} for "pokemon trainer".

Definitely. Yes to nonce modals. Yes to awesome.

However, I would like to start with {pokrjitro}. Changing between the two options is very easy going to {pokrtro}. If it's actually obnoxious, we'll just use {pokrtro}. In the meantime, let's give the fuller, longer words a chance.

(I have two other reasons for this:

I want this game to be a good teacher, a game that very young ones (perhaps Robin's kids?) could play someday and get a lot out of. It's far better to teach full gismu than rafsi.

I also want to reemphasize that we are creating a jargon space of words. Jargon is well-known for being obnoxious to get the hang of when being introduced to a concept or community. Imagine if 90% of the time you use {pokrtro} somepony goes ".uanai" and asks for what it means; it's far more likely for a first-time use of {pokrjitro} somepony goes "I know {jitro}! I get that." Also remember that in English, the primary jargon word was "poke" -- everything else that was jargon was some combination with it to make it obvious what it meant. That's what made it even easier to pick up.)

Basically, treat our {pok} psuedo-rafsi like {tol}, {sel}, or other rafsi that are frequently added to full gismu to nuance the meaning. This also means I'd like most instances to not alter the place structures, merely assign it to be pokemon-related. Thus:

pokrjitro: x1 has control over/directs pokemon x2 in x3 (probably pokemon battle)

> I suggest {pokrbi'o} for "evolve". pokrbi'o = x1 evolves into x2 under
> conditions x3. (giving a specific item, or reaching a certain level.)

Again, let's try {pokrbinxo} until it gets obnoxious. Honestly, I question the usefulness of adding {pokr} here. There's a useful difference between "pokemon trainer" and "trainer" but not between "evolves" and "transforms".

Note that I plan on translating "What? [ko'a] is evolving!" into {.ue .i ko'a ca binxo}. I see nothing gained by changing that to {.ue .i ko'a ca pokrbinxo}

However, this is the other reason I like using {pokr} in the same manner as {tol}, {sel}, etc. I can use normal {binxo} and you can use {pokrbinxo} or even {pokrbi'o} and neither of us will really mind or get confused in the conversation. Your words don't even have to be explicitly defined, provided I've "experienced" an evolution process while playing the game.

I'm going to shove these terms into a section of ((lai pokemon.))

mu'o mi'e djos

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