Re: [lojban] Re: It's Greek to me

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:21 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 25.07.2012 18:39, schrieb Marica Odagaki:

xu ki'a lu .itkuile li'u xelso

jboski and vlasisku doesn't parse ".itkuile"

and neither do I, to whom Lojban is still Greek.

vlasisku is not a parser. It can only decompose lujvo, but this is a zi'evla based on Ithkuil (the language).
Am 25.07.2012 19:07, schrieb Gleki Arxokuna:

How shall we define it? Wiktionary says

Greek (uncountable) Unintelligible speech or text, such as foreign speech or text, or regarding subjects the listener is not familiar with, such as mathematics or technical jargon; or statements that the listener does not understand or agree with.

.e'u

{.itkuile - x1 (quoted text/object) is unintelligible [for x2]}

Now I wonder if there is any need in this word when {jimpe} does the same.

The definition needs to be more specific.

That is possible, but quite terrible. You seem to be overlooking the joke (or I am seeing a joke where there is none). .itkuile: x1 pertains to Ithkuil in aspect x2

It's funny when used as "this is so complicated, I can't understand it", but defining it that way removes some of the metaphorical character from the _expression_. Of course, you'd get some laughs when someone looks it up expecting it to mean "x1 pertains to Ithkuil [..]" only to find this joke-definition. Happens somewhat regularly with the many other joke-brivla when someone looks them up on IRC.

I don't like the idea of having "joke-brivla" in which the official definition and the use are different. One compromise is to have the word mean "complicated and confusing" but have a note in its definition about its etymology. Another is to recognize that there is an elided {pe'a} in that usage and be careful using it.

One of the things I _like_ about lojban is its _lack_ of idiomatic/metaphoric/undocumented constructs that make it difficult for learners to achieve proficiency.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
-- .i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u .i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla .i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata
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