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Re: [lojban] "Any" and {ro}

la gleki, On 25/08/2012 08:10:



On Friday, August 24, 2012 5:08:51 AM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:

    la gleki, On 20/08/2012 09:53:

     > On Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:46:19 AM UTC+4, And Rosta wrote:
     > So "mi citka ma kau" would mean not "I eat anything" but rather "I eat whatever it is that I eat" -- because "do djuno lo du'u mi citka ma kau" means "Whatever it is that I eat, you know know that I eat it" = "You know what I eat".
     >
     > That makes "mi citka ma kau" still possibly useful, but doesn't give us a way to say "I eat anything". For that, I suggest "ro da su'o mu'ei ku mi citka da", "ro da ka'e ku mi citka da", "I could eat anything", or else "ro da ro mu'ei ku mi citka da", "I would eat anything".
     >
     > Two questions.
     > 1. Don't you think that it can mean "for each specific x in a
     > possible world it's possible/necessary that I will eat it".

    It means "For each x, it is the case that in all/some circumstances/eventualities I will/would/can/could eat it". Which is what "I will/would/can/could eat anything means", no?

Please don't translate {su'omu'ei} as "...I will/would/can/could eat it " because it explains nothing.


I translated it as "in some circumstances/eventualities"...


Let's use your definition from the wiki for instance.
/mi su'o mu'ei citka/= "... there are possible worlds wherein I eat"

Let's try to describe "da" which will mean some apples present in our basket.
We'll describe the situation *"I could eat any apple from that basket"*.
Let's take {ro da su'omu'ei ku mi mi citka da}. It will mean "For each x which can mean different things in different possible worlds I eat this x".
However, "I could eat any of these apples" describes the apples present in this world.


Those same apples exist in infinitely many worlds.


"any" in this sentence means that the choice is distributed over real
apples, not over what each apple turns into in some possible worlds.


That's not what "any" itself means. The apples in question remain the same across possible worlds.

"ro da poi me le plise zo'u mi su'o mu'ei citka da" means "Each of these applies is such that there is some possible world/circumstance/eventuality in which I eat it".


In other words, "da su'omu'ei ku" can mean one specific object that
can be other than apple but "da su'omu'ei ku" doesn't express that
these options refer only to the set of apples present in this
basket.


No, but "da poi me le plise" does. Your problem has to do with the lack of restriction on da, not on the introduction of "suo'o mu'ei".


I'd express our situation as {mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo su'a plise pe
ti poi lanka}> And {mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo su'anai plise pe ti poi
lanka} - describes some specific apples present in this basket. = "I
could eat some specific apples (that I have in mind) present in this
basket".


Delete {su'a} because it adds nothing to the logical form:

{mi su'omu'ei ku citka lo plise pe ti poi lanka [ke'a]}

Your sentence(s) mean "I could eat the basketed apple(s) here". It doesn't have the "any" meaning (except to the extent that it's included within the broad interpretation of {lo}).

--And.

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