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Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any real diffrence between hope (.a'o) and desire (.au)?





On Saturday, September 1, 2012 6:44:34 PM UTC+4, clifford wrote:
I suppose the idea here is {sei} as a sort of stage direction, the usual "Alice said" supplemented now by comments about Alice's presumed state of mind.  Using this for {a'o} and the like seems misguided, because 1) they are not metalinguistic, but part of the speech stream -- not someone els'e remark, but the speakers _expression_; 2) they are not truthvalued, as the {sei} comments are.

Isn't {sei} the same as loglandic {{soi crano}} etc.?



From: triliyn <trillio...@gmail.com>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Is there any real diffrence between hope (.a'o) and desire (.au)?

I've always thought of {sei} as introducing a comment about the text without regard for the meaning of the text. For example, you could say {broda sei mu da lerfu}, and {broda sei xlali} should be taken to mean "I think {broda} was a bad word choice".

On Saturday, September 1, 2012 8:26:28 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:


On Saturday, September 1, 2012 4:03:52 PM UTC+4, tijlan wrote:
On 30 August 2012 17:32, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can't we clearly define UI in terms of {sei broda} after all?
> So you are saying that {.a'o}={sei kanpe je djica}, right?

{a'o} and {kanpe je djica} seem to generally mean the same kind of emotion, yes.

Some notes:
{ui} is a direct _expression_ of happiness, whereas {(zo'e) gleki} is a
descriptive statement that someone feels / felt / will feel happiness
-- same emotion, different functions. Also, with {ui}, the experiencer
is the speaker by default; with {sei gleki}, it can be non-speakers.
{sei gleki} can be used to translate adverbial stuff, such as
"happily", whose explicit or implicit subject (x1) can be other than
the speaker. So, the {sei broda} form cannot always substitute for or
define UI.
 
Well, I guess {.ei=sei bilga} not {.ei=sei mi bilga} ?
I want all UI-cmavo translated to {sei ko'a broda} form.




> Can you also derive {.ai} from {.au}?

Does {ai} always imply {au}? Probably not. One can intend but not want
to pay a tax.
Does {au} always imply {ai}? Probably not. One can want but not intend
to go to Mars.


mu'o
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