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Re: [lojban] {kau} vs. {ba'e}



On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:32:24 AM UTC+4, tsani wrote:
Simply because {la djan kau} is arguably never correct, {kau} can never "replace" {ba'e}. {kau} has a particular use, namely to mark indirect *questions*. {kau} on anything but a question is weird, at best, and complete nonsense, at worst.

{ba'e} on the other hand marks emphasis. Emphasis and indirect questions are two separate ideas. 

{.i mi djuno lo du'u xukau la djan ba'e broda} "I know whether John brodas (and not whether he does/is some other selbri)"
{.i mi djuno lo du'u ba'e xu kau la djan ba'e broda} "I know *whether* John brodas (and not if it pertains to some other indirect question)"

The thing about {makau} is that it's somewhat referentless, like {da}, and it's best to think about {[question]-kau} constructs as being single items of the [question]'s selma'o.

As for "replacing kau with ba'e", I must say that replacing *incorrect* usage of {kau}, such as {la djan kau}, with {ba'e}, in the form of {ba'e la djan} is a very excellent solution.

So is it something that needs to be fixed in this chapter of the CLL? 

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 30 September 2012 04:48, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
It was previously mentioned that 
{.i ko'a broda xu = .i xu ko'a ba'e broda}

The example

http://dag.github.com/cll/11/8/

8.4)   mi djuno le du'u
             la djan. kau pu
                 klama le zarci
       I know the predication-of/fact-that
             John [indirect question] [past]
                 going to the store.
       I know who went to the store, namely John.
       I know that it was John who went to the store.

is rather interesting.
It shows the shift of focus to {la djan.}

Then why not use {kau} instead of {ba'e} all the time?
{mi kau djuno le du'u la djan. kau pu klama lo zarci} ?
If you need arrange foci by their strength you can always say

{mi kausai djuno le du'u la djan. kau pu klama lo zarci}.

So my question is:
in what cases {ba'e} is irreplaceable?

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