Re: [lojban] {zo'i} vs. {fa'a}

[selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>]

Am 06.11.2012 11:47, schrieb la gleki:
> Could you please provide some examples shoeing the difference?

I don't think "fa'a" and "zo'i" have much in common.
"zo'i" doesn't see much use, but I think it used to be thought of as 
meaning "inward", whereas I understand it to mean "on the same side as". 
Here is an example:

mi zutse lo rirxe korbi zo'i lo tolci'o cindu
I'm sitting by the river on the same side as the old oak.

However, I'm not sure whether or not zo'i should refer to the event of 
the bridi or to one of its arguments, the former is more consistent. In 
the case of fa'a, the event is put in relation to the tagged sumti:

mi cadzu fa'a lo bitmu
I walk towards the wall.

This is the same as:

lo nu mi cadzu cu se farna lo bitmu
My walking is oriented towards the wall.

This means that in the case of fa'a, the event is redistributed into 
another place of the sumtcita's base brivla (farna2 in this case). This 
is common among sumtcita with an event place.

This can be done for zo'i as well, but then it gets slightly less useful:

mi zutse lo rirxe korbi zo'i lo cindu
The event of me sitting by the river is on the same side as the oak. 
[from what?]

The most coherent answer is that the reference point, just like with VA, 
is bound by context or explicitly using ki. Then:

lo cipni cu zutse lo tricu zo'i lo verba
The event of the bird sitting on the tree is one the same side [from me] 
as the child.

Which would then be the same as:

lo nu lo cipni cu zutse lo tricu cu tolragve lo verba lo manri [no'u mi]

Whereas under the first interpretation it would be:

lo cipni cu tolragve lo verba lo tricu

I'm not sure which of these two interpretations is preferred, or if in 
fact a third, different one, is preferred. I think the first one is 
easier to use, but it less consistent with the rest of the tags. In the 
second interpretation, it is sometimes somewhat arbitrary which of the 
sumti gets picked as tolragve1 and which as tolragve3, so it's less 
semantically clear.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo .e nai zo lejbo

doị mèlbi mlenì'u
   .i do càtlu ki'u
ma fe la xàmpre ŭu
   .i do tìnsa càrmi
gi'e sìrji se tàrmi
   .i taị bo pu cìtka lo gràna ku


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