Re: [lojban] {cpedu} places vs. {minde, fraxu} etc.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 7:28 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:34:56 AM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote:
If you think of x2 as an object (which it can be), you will see that cpedu is actually in the lebna/cpacu/(te) dunda/benji/(te)mrilu, etc.... family. The object changing hands being in the x2 spot, and the x3 spot being the other person involved in the transaction. It's actually pikci which is the minde family.

Yes, that's what bothers me.
Why do we have
{se ckire} being the addressee but
{te ciksi} being the addressee.

It's very hard to remember, non-intuitive etc.

You'd have to ask the people who came up with the definitions in the first place, but I doubt they could answer you, either. i doubt any intention was payed to regularity among "families" of gismu, especially considering how many gismu have irregular places within their family. (I don't recall the exact one, but I believe the first irregular gismu I came across was one of the metric measurements, mass, maybe?)

It is my hope that at some very near future point this irregularity issue if addressed and fixed. Since it's always with the least used places, I don't believe making the irregular gismu regular would have much of an impact on historical works.

--gejyspa

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 8:28 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:

cpedu - x1 requests/asks/petitions/solicits for x2 of/from x3 in manner/form x4.
minde - x1 issues commands/orders to x2 for result x3 (event/state) to happen; x3 is commanded to occur.

Although two gismu are obviously semantically close to each other they differ in the order of arguments.
Is it just a historical quirk?

I guess this is the "error" of {cpedu} cuz other similar gismu follow the structure of {minde}.

fraxu - x1 forgives x2 for event/state/activity x3.

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