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Re: [lojban] CLL 1.1/ CLL 2.0. What is your opinion in the current situation?

Jonathan Jones wrote:

You're mixing stuff up. The above is what needs to be done to complete
the baseline, which is, simply put, documenting the definitions, usage,
etc. of all the words in Lojban, not including fu'ivla, zi'evla, cmevla
and lujvo.

The CLL is, basically, a complete description of the grammar of Lojban,
whereas the BPFK baseline is a complete description of the vocabulary.
And I'm being overly simplistic here, of course, but that is the gist of
the thing.


That is correct.
byfy started because I was incapable on my own of writing proper cmavo definitions for the Lojban dictionary. Cowan had come up with the selma'o catalog as a step in this process, and the selma'o catalog became CLL. That was in 1997. By 2002, we still had no set of cmavo definitions, and I realized that my whole baseline concept was bankrupt because I couldn't produce a dictionary. byfy was a solution to this problem, an organized approach to having others crowdsource what I could not complete by myself. 


     > >or even new official proposals
     >
     > There have never been ANY official proposals since byfy started.

    At least in practice it seems to me like xorlo is such an official
    proposal
    which is still not incorporated(whatever this means exactly).

xorlo (and dotside, I believe) are officially part of the language.
xorlo is, by special vote. dotside is not (yet) official, but is probably effectively so, because those of us who have not accepted it aren't doing much with the language. 


Neither have been incorporated into the CLL yet, mostly because making
changes to the CLL as is is extremely difficult, and partly because
right now the focus is on making the CLL, as it is now content-wise,
into something that takes advantage of technologies that didn't exist at
the time of its writing, such as concurrent versioning, and the internet.
Much better than I put it. When byfy started, "crowdsourcing" wasn't yet a word, and the only tools we had were modified primitive wiki programs.
And I still work in Microsoft Word, conceptually back in the 90s. HTML and its tag-based relatives are all but unintelligible to me. So I am hardly one to explain this. 


     > >or any other progress within the last year.
     >
     > The progress, such that it is, is whatever Robin says that it is.
     > He was granted essentially dictatorial powers until (at least) such
     > time as CLL is updated.

    That's a rather blurry and - given that Robin does not even have time
    to describe things - non-helpful description of what should be done.
    Ok, he has dictatorial powers. But if few other people know what to do,
    then something is severely wrong...

    Concerning editorial work...
    There is a TODO file/the issues page on github, but a lot of items
    on that list
    are just incomprehensible to me. What exactly does e.g.
    "<lojbanization> tables are shit" mean?


Well, it means that tables that utilize the <lojbanization> should not
be used, because they are "shit".
I don't think he knows what "<lojbanization> tables" are, or why they might be "shit". I don't know either, though I made a guess in my response. 

lojbab

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