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Re: [lojban] Tags and bridi operators
Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 06:46:03 UTC+9, selpa'i a écrit :la .guskant. cu cusku di'e
> {na} is a selbri tag in all those, but it, as well as {bau} and {fi'o ve
> tavla}, is a bridi operator.
> Traditionally, the selbri tag {na} is equivalent to {naku} at the
> beginning of the sentence, then {na} scopes over the whole bridi in
> every case.
> However, because of the problem shown in
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/scope+of+na , {na} is treated in the same way
> as the other bridi operators: the earlier has wider scope. Then the four
> bridi are equivalent to the following bridi:
>
> (6a') bau lo jbobau naku zo'u mi do zo'e tavla
> (6b') fi'o ve tavla lo jbobau naku zo'u mi do zo'e tavla
> (6c') naku zo'u fo lo jbobau fa mi do zo'e tavla
> (6d') naku zo'u mi do zo'e lo jbobau tavla
Yes.
> The scope of {na} seems different between ((6a'),(6b')) and ((6c'),(6d')).
How exactly is it different? You mean because the language-tags in (6a')
and (6b') have scope over {na}, but not in (6c') and (6d')? Yes, that's
true, but that's because the former two use tags, and the latter two
don't. The tags are the diffence, not {na} itself. {na} is under the
scope of another operator in the first two. Or am I misunderstanding you?
OK, it's now clear, ki'e. It is shocking but interesting that (6b) and (6c) have different scopes of {na}. In my view, the terms in prenex suggest somehow what is the universe of discourse of the bridi. From this point of view, (6b) and (6c) suggest different universes of discourse: (6b) first restrict the universe of discourse to what is concerning the language used, and then negate the bridi; on the other hand, (6c) does not suggests anything related to the universe of discourse, and simply negates the bridi.
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